john 3:8

[Thomas brisbane]

I was wondering if oneness Pentecostals can use john 3:8 as a "proof text" that tongues are a part of the new birth. It has all the characteristics of Acts 2:38; Sound, Language and Wind. What do you think?  Is it too vague?

[MICHAEL AND DELLA WINSKIE]

Not too vague at all, bro. In fact, it says there will be a sound that accompanies everyone born of the spirit. Then, in Mark 16, tongues is one of the signs that follow "them that believe", not SOME of them that believe. Finally, in Acts 2, 10, and 19, tongues are definitely present when someone is born of the spirit. God bless! 

[Thomas brisbane]

God Bless you too. you have been the only one who has even touched this verse. There is a debate going on concerning the initial evidence doctrine and I've been trying to get some feed back  on how to defend our position on an solid scriptural, scholarly,  academic level. Scholars are saying there is no direct teaching on speaking in tongues as the initial evidence on receiving the Holy Ghost. They say it is subsequent to salvation, and some do, or  do not or have to speak in tongues. I feel as a fulfillment of old testament prophecy, the answer and the mentality  of Luke lies there. He was teaching something already know in scripture. Your reference to John 3:8 is spot on; the word for  wind there is pneuma. Most commentator ignore or misinterpret the sound of the "spirit".

said:

Not too vague at all, bro. In fact, it says there will be a sound that accompanies everyone born of the spirit. Then, in Mark 16, tongues is one of the signs that follow "them that believe", not SOME of them that believe. Finally, in Acts 2, 10, and 19, tongues are definitely present when someone is born of the spirit. God bless! 

[MICHAEL AND DELLA WINSKIE]

Mark 16 says that "these signs shall follow them that believe." One of those signs is speaking in tongues. Yet, 1 Corinthians says that there are differing gifts of the spirit, of which tongues is one of the nine listed there. How do we reconcile this? The answer, I believe, is that Corinthians is dealing with spiritual gifts, while Mark 16 is dealing with signs. In the Baptist doctrines I was raised in, they used to argue that tongues no longer happen because we have the Bible now and have no need of tongues. They said that the written word is "that which is perfect hath come." Later, when some Baptists began to receive the spirit, they changed their argument to saying that tongues is only one of the gifts and not everyone is going to speak in tongues- even though they have the spirit. I converted to the Apostolic truth in 1990 and began to study this fervently wit the Lord's leading. What I now believe is that everyone who is born of the spirit will speak in tongues as the initial SIGN (John 3:8, Mark 16:16-18) of the infilling of the spirit. This is further evidenced on Acts 2, 10, 19. However, not everyone will receive the "gift of tongues." A person will speak in tongues at the spiritual birth, crying out in the spirit "Abba, Father." But, they may never speak in tongues again. 

I also believe that our gifts are given by God "severally, as he wills." We may be used in tongues in one congregation, but if the situation changes there, or if the Lord moves us to another fellowship, he may use us in an entirely different gift (or gifts, plural). I no longer buy into the teaching that was so "in vogue" for many years about "finding your spiritual gift." God is sovereign and uses us in whatever gift he deems necessary at any given time and situation. 

That's my take, anyway, brother. Please forgive my rambling. I'm 50 and getting old now! :-) 

God bless you and yours! 

[Thomas brisbane]

Ha Ha ramble on my brother it's all right.  Praise the Lord for your conversion to the Apostolic truth. Yeah Calvinism doesn't lend its self  to tongues as the initial sign. In fact the whole middle ages ( except for a few individuals) was in the dark on this important truth. You would get  a strong argument on the Mark passage as some would argue its originally. I still feel John 3:8 has a strong argument for the IED. One scripture that caught my eye was Numbers 11:25 where the Spirit rested on the seventy elders. It said they prophesied, and did not do so again. The KJV says that they did not cease, but that is not the literal rendering. I argue  this was a one time experience for the seventy, but was the pattern and  similar experience for all the prophets of God; which was, ecstatic utterances when the Spirit of God moved upon them 2Peter 1:21. I feel tongues was also  a part of these experiences.  The "one time sign" for true believers now is also tongues; signifying the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the promise of salvation.   see I can ramble too!! lol  God Bless.      
 
MICHAEL AND DELLA WINSKIE said:

Mark 16 says that "these signs shall follow them that believe." One of those signs is speaking in tongues. Yet, 1 Corinthians says that there are differing gifts of the spirit, of which tongues is one of the nine listed there. How do we reconcile this? The answer, I believe, is that Corinthians is dealing with spiritual gifts, while Mark 16 is dealing with signs. In the Baptist doctrines I was raised in, they used to argue that tongues no longer happen because we have the Bible now and have no need of tongues. They said that the written word is "that which is perfect hath come." Later, when some Baptists began to receive the spirit, they changed their argument to saying that tongues is only one of the gifts and not everyone is going to speak in tongues- even though they have the spirit. I converted to the Apostolic truth in 1990 and began to study this fervently wit the Lord's leading. What I now believe is that everyone who is born of the spirit will speak in tongues as the initial SIGN (John 3:8, Mark 16:16-18) of the infilling of the spirit. This is further evidenced on Acts 2, 10, 19. However, not everyone will receive the "gift of tongues." A person will speak in tongues at the spiritual birth, crying out in the spirit "Abba, Father." But, they may never speak in tongues again. 

I also believe that our gifts are given by God "severally, as he wills." We may be used in tongues in one congregation, but if the situation changes there, or if the Lord moves us to another fellowship, he may use us in an entirely different gift (or gifts, plural). I no longer buy into the teaching that was so "in vogue" for many years about "finding your spiritual gift." God is sovereign and uses us in whatever gift he deems necessary at any given time and situation. 

That's my take, anyway, brother. Please forgive my rambling. I'm 50 and getting old now! :-) 

God bless you and yours!