In our rush to the altar...

[Myron Powell]

Over the last 17 years of pastoring, I've watched many people get rushed to an altar and speak in tongues. I've watched just as many of these leave within months of their experience.

I realize we must "redeem the time because the days are evil" but I wonder if our rush to the get people to speak in tongues is causing some "premature births" and eventually deaths!?

Today, during my daily dose of the "verbs" (Proverbs), I came across this one. I realize I'm stretching the context a little here, but we all do it occasionally.  

Proverbs 20:21 (ESV)
An inheritance gained hastily in the beginning will not be blessed in the end.

The Holy Ghost is referred to in the NT as an "inheritance".

I want people to receive the Holy Ghost, and I want to see multiplied thousands experience this daily, BUT, I don't want them to forego repentance! We must be careful to allow Godly sorrow to work repentance and lead to salvation!

Just some ramblin' thoughts this evening...

[Donnie Gillum]

I've seen much of the same...and a very good point. Also, I do think I see where that if these new ones were placed in a good home-group setting their chances of servival would be much greater...even better than new convert classes (and I've taught them).

[Myron Powell]

The stronger our homes are, the stronger the church will be.

[Donnie Gillum]

Exactly, Brother, exactly!!!

[Nathan Miller]

I thought I was the only one to think this. In fact--and some Apostolics may disagree, but I say this from my perspective--I have seen in many churches a heavy, and sometimes exclusive, focus on the new birth itself, instead of on the new life to which the new birth is but a beginning. The collective goal has been to increase membership of the body, to bring in new believers (which is good and essential!), but not necessarily to grow the body into the stature of the Lord. Is it because births are more exciting to witness than growing pains? Is it because we have so many trained midwives in the church, but so few nurses, and even fewer teachers/trainers/parents? Assisting a birth is exciting, and it is also as much an event as it is a process of labor. Parenting however, takes much time, patience, maturity, perseverance and self-sacrifice.

At least one result of this is that those teachers and "parents" that do exist may have way too much to do to keep up with so many new babes... some actually starve, others are anemic and malnourished, and many remain infants for so long, it's as if they might never begin to enter the training age...and many become accustomed to this. They may grow up thinking that ushering new converts to the altar is their highest calling, their highest purpose in the body of Christ. But Paul spoke of an even higher calling, a (pre)destination, to which he looked forward and for which he longed to the point that he was ready to cast off his earthly body to be clothed in the heavenly one. (I know I'm blending scriptures here, but I think my point is correct.)

[Myron Powell]

Well said Brother Nathan. Growth is NOT only about the numbers, but rather health. The healthier the body, the more it grows and "numbers" are the direct consequence of a healthy church.

Strong men build strong families and strong families build strong churches!

Blessings.

[Donnie Gillum]

Well stated, Nathan! And is one reason (if not the main one) for so many newborns "dying" (leaving the church).

[David Huston]

I heard someone say that up until the early 90s, the UPCI was a "Oneness organization," but since then it has become a "Holy Ghost organization." From my own observation I would say that this is correct (and it may not be limited to the UPCI). In the 90s we began to see more and more emphasis on receiving the Holy Spirit and publishing the number who supposedly did. Yet, in the midst of all this I began to notice that water baptism in the name of Jesus was often left out of the preaching completely. In other words, men were preaching the Holy Ghost rather than doing what Jesus said to do, which was to preach the gospel and to preach repentance and remission of sins in His name. I have found that by keeping the focus on repentance and baptism, people tend to be more humble and stay around longer. Plus, they all eventually receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Of course, it's easier to get people to come forward to receive a gift than it is to get them to come forward to commit their life to an invisible God. This means the numbers are often smaller. I wrote an article on this subject in 1999 which was published in Forward magazine. It took a little flack for it. If you're interested, you can read it at www.GloriousChurch.com. It's on the Apostolic Free Library and is called "Burial in the Plan of Salvation."

[Myron Powell]

Thank you Bro. David for publishing these things and more.

I believe you've hit the nail on the head when you said, "It's easier to get people to come forward to receive a gift than it is to get them to come forward to commit their life to an invisible God."

I also am disturbed by certain gimmicks geared at drawing a crowd: things like giveaways, raffles, etc. all for the purpose of beefing up the attendance and getting more filled with the Holy Ghost. Unfortunately, very few, if any remain.

Scare tactics, gimmicks, and so forth are not what Jesus or His apostles did. We shouldn't either. Paul preached the cross of Christ - foolishness to the world - and refused to trust in the wisdom of man. Man's wisdom fails every time, but the demonstration of the Spirit and power changes lives!

Let's preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and let God give the increase... He will add to the church daily, such as should be saved!

[David Huston]

To me, when a person is encouraged to receive the Holy Ghost but is not told about baptism, even if later on they get baptized, it's just not the same. Most times they end up being unbroken, unsubmissive, charismatic-type church members. After all, when repentance is transformed into "I'm sorry for my sins" and baptism in Jesus name is omitted, what we have is Billy Graham plus the Holy Ghost. It's really no different from what so-called charismatic churches do.

[Michael V. Frazier]

Myron Powell said:

I also am disturbed by certain gimmicks geared at drawing a crowd: things like giveaways, raffles, etc. all for the purpose of beefing up the attendance and getting more filled with the Holy Ghost. Unfortunately, very few, if any remain.

Scare tactics, gimmicks, and so forth are not what Jesus or His apostles did.

I'm curious, brethren, of what you all think of this website: http://www.gowinsouls.com, specifically in the method proposed of witnessing. I've been hesitant to ask this of you all, as I don't want to offend anyone that may support the site or personally know those involved. But I'm concerned about the same things mentioned in this discussion, and in my opinion, the website promotes some of those tactics.

[Myron Powell]

Michael V. Frazier said:

Myron Powell said:

I also am disturbed by certain gimmicks geared at drawing a crowd: things like giveaways, raffles, etc. all for the purpose of beefing up the attendance and getting more filled with the Holy Ghost. Unfortunately, very few, if any remain.

Scare tactics, gimmicks, and so forth are not what Jesus or His apostles did.

I'm curious, brethren, of what you all think of this website: http://www.gowinsouls.com, specifically in the method proposed of witnessing. I've been hesitant to ask this of you all, as I don't want to offend anyone that may support the site or personally know those involved. But I'm concerned about the same things mentioned in this discussion, and in my opinion, the website promotes some of those tactics.

I've spoken with many who have used these tactics and so far, only one church has seen any kind of long-term success. The reason for the long-term success was because that local assembly became actively involved in the discipleship process.

To me, using gimmicks to get someone in church cheapens the blood of Jesus Christ and quite frankly is a slap in the face. Jesus said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me." I know He was referring literally to how He would die, but in the same token, when we sing and worship and preach and teach about Jesus Christ and Him crucified, we are "lifting Him up" and the natural consequence will be souls added to the Church.

Consider this: Jesus said, "Upon this rock I will build my church..." Jesus didn't build His church on programs, gimmicks, handouts, giveaways, or a cheap and easy "get-the-Holy Ghost-quick" method. The church is built upon TRUTH!

If the church would teach and preach doctrine... if daddy's would teach doctrine in their homes... if employees would live doctrine on the job... (you get the point)... then we would both save ourselves and them that hear us. I believe Paul said that to Timothy, right?!

Throw out the gimmicks! PREACH JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED!

[Myron Powell]

David Huston said:

To me, when a person is encouraged to receive the Holy Ghost but is not told about baptism, even if later on they get baptized, it's just not the same. Most times they end up being unbroken, unsubmissive, charismatic-type church members. After all, when repentance is transformed into "I'm sorry for my sins" and baptism in Jesus name is omitted, what we have is Billy Graham plus the Holy Ghost. It's really no different from what so-called charismatic churches do.

AND THE CHURCH SAID, AMEN!!!!!!!