What Is Your Stance On Wine For The Lord's Supper

[Phillip W. Gordon]

 

 

  Does the Glorious Church have a particular stance on wine for the Lord's Supper or do you only use grape juice?

[David Huston]

The Glorious Church is not a church per se; it is a concept. I cannot say what the other members of this network do, but our local assembly in Carlisle, PA, uses only grape juice. Others may do differently, and they are welcome to state their practice on this forum.

[Mike Gibson]

 

In Assemblies that I ministered in we have used wine and if it was not available, grape juice. Do you believe one is more preferable scripturally speaking than the other?

[David Huston]

We don't want to place a stumbling block before anyone who used to be an alcohol addict. We feel that is scripturally preferable.

[Jim Moses]

We just talked about this in our elder meeting on Tues evening and we feel the same way as the Carlisle leaders.

[Phillip W. Gordon]

 

First of all, I have found out through conversations with older folks about 30 years ago, that early apostolics regularly used wine.  When I first heard of this years ago, I was very surprised. To answer Mike's question, the word itself comes from a greek word that one of the meanings of the word, is "to bubble up", etc.  The reason for this is that grape juice does not "bubble up" due to the fact that it is not fermented.  The meaning itself speaks of life, which we know according to the scriptures there is life in the blood of Christ.  To be scripturally accurate, I see the need to use wine. 

  Of course there are different wines with different percentages of alcohol.  I use a naturally fermented wine which, without anything added to it will not go over 13%. So, it is usually Mogan David or Maneshivitzs passover wine.

  Also, in the writings of Alfred Edersheim, he plainly states that in Jesus 'day, the Jews, as a rule, did not drink the wine straight, but instead mixed it with one third  to two thirds water.  I have also heard this from other sources.

  As far as a stumbling block, I would let someone decide on what they should do.  Personally, if a man has been delivered from alcoholism, he should have no fear of taking wine for the Lord's supper.  If during the Lord's supper, there is proper prayer, and our focus is on the blood and body of Christ, and what the Lord's Supper is about, our faith should be greater than our fears.

   

 

[David Huston]

My understanding is that the word for wine (Heb. yayin, Grk. oinos) can mean anything from fermented wine to grape juice to the juice while it's still inside the grape. To say that only the use of wine is scripturally accurate would seem to be an overstatement, since nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus drank wine at the Last Supper. Also, to say that any man who has been delivered from alcohol should have no fear of drinking wine is a dangerous position to take. As a pastor, I would never put a man in that position. To me, this is like saying that after being delivered from a life of immorality, a man should not fear just a little hug from a woman he's not married to. Many people have come to God from lives absolutely ruined by alcohol. To set a glass of wine before such a person would, in my opinion, be downright cruel. I cannot conceive of us ever going there.  

[Phillip W. Gordon]

 

 

    According to Strongs Concordance and also Joseph Thayer's Greek English Lexicon, the greek word (oinos) simply means wine.  There is no evidence that this word is speaking of grape juice.  Also there is reference to the Hebrew word, number 3196 in the Strongs, as you have stated,yayin.  According to Strongs the meaning is, "from an unused root, which means to to efferesce, wine (as fermented).

  My concern is that  the meaning of the Lord's Supper is not being carried out in the natural by using grape juice.  The wine speaks of the blood of Christ, and the wine has "life" in it that the grape juice does not have.

  In the scriptures the new wine was not put in to old wineskins for fear of losing the wine.  The natural process of fermentation starts in the wine skin.   Even today, grape juice that is exposed to air will start the process of fermentation, without adding anything to it.

  I also have a source that tells me that Welchs actually started producing grape juice for the purpose of folks that wanted to substitute juice for wine.

  As I have stated before, I will let a person decide on what they believe the Lord wants them to do concerning this, but fear of becoming an alcoholic should not be the decisive factor.  Only what the Lord's says should be how we obey him.   Thank you for your kind response.

[David Huston]

We have no theological issue with people using wine if they so chose. We use juice for the reason previously stated. Our view is that because Jesus did not use the word "oinos" at the Last Supper but instead called it "the fruit of the vine" and because Paul simply called it "the cup," we are left to chose which substance is best in each circumstance. After all, the real significance of the Lord's Supper is the genuineness of the fellowship of the body of Christ, not the bread and cup. They are only symbols.

[Phillip W. Gordon]

David Huston said:

We have no theological issue with people using wine if they so chose. We use juice for the reason previously stated. Our view is that because Jesus did not use the word "oinos" at the Last Supper but instead called it "the fruit of the vine" and because Paul simply called it "the cup," we are left to chose which substance is best in each circumstance. After all, the real significance of the Lord's Supper is the genuineness of the fellowship of the body of Christ, not the bread and cup. They are only symbols.

[Phillip W. Gordon]

 

 

   So, if you want to a congregation to minister and they were folks that basically believed in the same things as you, except that they used wine for the Lord's Supper, would you take part in their communion?

[Phillip W. Gordon]

 

 

     If the Lord speaks to a person that has a problem with alcohol abuse, and let's them know that they can take the Lord's Supper using wine, then that is all the answer I need.   As I have stated, I leave it up to the individual

    If fear is an issue in not doing it, then fear is wrong.  "Perfect love casts out fear." If a person has been born again, then by the work that the Lord has done in his heart he is either made righteous in the eyes of the Lord, or he isn't.  

 

    I am not speaking from experience, but by what is written in the Word of God.  I am strongly opposed to the use of beer or hard liquors in any form. 

 

[David Huston]

If I were visiting another assembly, I would drink whatever was set before me because I never had a significant problem with alcohol. What other assemblies do is not my responsibility. As for the idea that "perfect love casts out fear," that passage is talking about the fear of God's judgment. It does not include all fears. God imbedded fear into our human nature for our protection. Many fears are totally reasonable (fear of fire, fear of heights, fear of wild animals, etc). To me, for a man who was formerly addicted to alcohol or has seen a family completely destroyed by alcohol to fear taking even one drink is not a lack of faith; it is an exercise of good judgment. Furthermore, if such a man is sitting around a dinner table and is handed a glass of wine as part of the celebration of the Lord's Supper, to place the responsibility on him to decline to participate is hardly the spirit of this event. Paul admonished the believers in Rome not to "put stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way" (Romans 14:13). This is the governing principle that we attempting to follow.