Your position on full-body scanners?

[David Huston]

In light of the terrorist threat, what should the Christian position be concerning the use of these full-body scanners at airports and elsewhere? How do we maintain consistency in our values yet protect ourselves as best as possible from terrorism?

[tom]

the bible specifically tells us to obey magistrates,to submit and pray for those in authority that we can lead a quiet life.Remember the government is on the lords shoulder.The Lord has given us great promises that we can stand on: Proverbs 3:25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh. Psalms 56:3-4 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.Psalms 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.We trust the lord in all things but i believe we can use these times as opportunity to present the gospel , for us to stand up and out as a light that shineth in a very dark world. It is time for the Glorious Church Psalms 24:8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. Jesus is his name

[Steve Sanders]

Perhaps the evolving full-body scanner technology and accompanying computer software will alleviate any modesty or morality concerns from the Christian community. According to some internet sources, the full-body scanner technology has evolved enough to reduce the clarity of identifying details on the human body. The systems blur faces, and or produce images that look like chalk outlines. One source mentions that Amsterdam’s airport is using new technology that projects a stylized image-rather than an actual picture on a computer screen. It highlights the area of the body where objects are concealed in pockets or under the clothing. Moreover, the TSA says it uses logistical methods to safeguard the privacy of the person being scanned; the security officer assisting the passenger cannot view the image, and the officer who views the image doesn’t see the passenger. Apparently the alternative for anyone who declines to have a full-body scan is a pat-down from security personnel that can be very thorough according to reports.
Christians voluntarily cooperate with physicians and other medical personnel by submitting to medical exams and procedures that may call into account Christian issues of modesty and morality for the purpose of personal welfare. Maybe as Christians we should accept the full-body scan at airports as an issue of personal welfare especially in light of the technological advancements and methodologies used to maximize the privacy of the passenger.

[David Huston]

The Naked Truth About Airport Scanners
By Steve Chapman
(taken from Real Clear Politics, January 7, 2010)

To judge from the news accounts, Umar Abdulmutallab did everything to get himself caught except wear an Osama bin Laden T-shirt onto that Northwest Airlines flight Christmas Day. Yet the danger didn't dawn on anyone until he allegedly set himself on fire while trying to detonate the explosives hidden in his underwear. So the solution being proposed is the one we hear whenever the government fails: Give it greater power.

This is a common liberal impulse. The public schools aren't educating students adequately? They need more money. The stimulus didn't rev up job creation? Pass another one. But when it comes to national security and law enforcement, the same tendency afflicts many conservatives. They generally think the federal government could screw up a three-car funeral, but they expect it to perform with flawless efficiency in finding murderous fanatics. And if it fails, they look to expand its authority to do the job it botched.

This is not true of everyone on the right. One of the ideas already in the works is screening all passengers with full-body scanners that let Transportation Security Administration agents see through clothing. Michael Chertoff, who was secretary of homeland security under President George W. Bush, has urged their expanded use, while ridiculing "privacy ideologues, for whom every security measure is unacceptable."

But last year, a bill sponsored by Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, banning the routine use of these machines easily passed the House, with the support of two out of every three GOP members. At the time, he warned, "The images offer a disturbingly accurate view of a person's body underneath clothing, even allowing Transportation Security Administration officials to distinguish gender or see the sweat on a person's back."

That vote might come out a little differently today, but Chaffetz is not backing down. "I think that's the challenge for our society, and there is no simple, easy answer: How do you find that right balance between protecting your personal privacy and yet the need to secure, say, an airplane," he told public radio station KCPW in Salt Lake City. Yes, there are Republicans who think there are limits to how much privacy we should relinquish in pursuit of security.

Very few of us would be willing to get naked in front of a uniformed agent for the privilege of getting on a plane. But the scanners would have the same effect. How graphic are their images? British authorities barred the use of scanners for travelers under 18 for fear of violating child pornography laws. Chertoff takes comfort that the officers inspecting the images would not know whose unclothed form they're viewing and that the faces would be blurred. He seems to assume we can always trust every one of those government employees. (If I were an attractive woman, I'd have particularly strong doubts.) It's not reassuring that, as Chertoff notes, travelers could opt to get pat-downs instead. Any pat-down aimed at making sure you aren't carrying explosive powders in your crotch is going to stir unpleasant memories of your last physical.

As it happens, the sacrifice involved in mass use of the full-body scanners, which TSA is already planning, would probably be futile. A Conservative member of the British parliament who previously worked for a company making scanners said that "in all the testing that we undertook, it was unlikely that it would have picked up the current explosive devices being used by al-Qaida" -- including those used in the Christmas plot. The more intractable problem is that terrorists are fiendishly capable of adaptation. If the scanners can find plastic explosives hidden in underwear -- which is not guaranteed -- the evildoers have another option that would foil these gadgets: hiding the bomb in a body cavity. That's exactly how one suicide bomber tried to assassinate the prince in charge of counterterrorism for Saudi Arabia. The charge went off, and the prince was lucky to survive. Today, full-body scanners. Tomorrow, cavity searches?

Preventing an Airbus from being blown up, of course, doesn't mean preventing a terrorist from killing large numbers of people. If we secure commercial planes, jihadists can set off their bombs in sports venues, subway cars, shopping malls or other crowded places.

So here's the sad reality: If we insist on preserving what little remains of our privacy, we will remain at risk of a terrorist attack. And if we give it up? Ditto.

[Donnie Gillum]

There are several issues involved in this topic. One that comes to mind is the old, and very effective strategy of creating a “problem” and then come to the rescue with a supposed “solution”…in order to further establish usually some unseen agenda. While there may be some danger of terrorist attempts, there are many that believe that the “terrorist problem” is nowhere near what the government would have us to believe. And…there is more than just “conspiracy theory” evidence to support this conclusion. (Did they tell us the truth about Oklahoma, 911, Bird flu, hurricane Katrina, and more recently, H1N1 – see my post “A Little Sarcasm” etc.? Have we forgotten the Mexican/American border issue? So…are they really serious about terrorist’s threats?)

Aside from the modesty issue of virtually striping everyone naked at the airport, there are some real health concerns in this full-body scanning process, especially for frequent flyers. Americans have come to submit to what seems like all kinds of invasions in their body already: CAT scans, mammograms, X-rays, EMF of high power wires, cell phones and other wireless devices, plus the danger of powerful radiation blasts when flying through clouds (see Mercola.com) – many pilots are now coming down with melanoma.

We already have a cancer plague among us that astoundingly lines the pockets of oncologists, chemo doctors, surgeons, radiologists and more specifically, the pharmaceutical industry. Is this scanning process actually something that has been conveniently dovetailed into the security “problem” (taking advantage of pubic fear-mongering) going to speed up the steady flow of “sheeple”...to a stampede into the local cancer corals? Dying from the effects of chemo, surgery and radiation is no laughing matter!

So, even if one chooses not to fly at all, I am convinced they will come up with some other more advanced “solution” as very effectively outlined in Steve Chapman’s “The Naked Truth About Airport Scanners” article (in Bro. Dave’s last post). As for me, while the modesty issue is a concern, I can’t help feeling that this is another subtle, deceptive unveiling of carefully laid plans…and a harbinger of more noose-tightening upon the American public to come.

[Donnie Gillum]

For more about health concerns, GCN members may want to look at this link:

Crotch Bomber Kicks Off Massive DNA Destruction
http://www.infowars.com/crotch-bomber-kicks-off-massive-dna-destruc...

[Donnie Gillum]

Here's a tip from the Health Ranger, Mike Adams:
NaturalNews Tip of the day (from Mike):

If you're traveling and forced to undergo a full-body scan (which emits radiation), here's some extremely valuable information you can use to protect your body from radiation damage:

Take rosemary and ginkgo before you fly. Antioxidants can also prevent DNA damage from radiation. Plus, they'll protect your immune system while you travel!

And...here's a quote from his article:

It's fairly obvious at this point that the real mission of the TSA has nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with brainwashing Americans to surrender to police state searches while living in a never-ending state of extreme fear. The TSA, in other words, is just a vehicle by which Americans can be programmed to kow-tow to the herd mentality.

The rest of this very interesting article may be read here:

http://www.naturalnews.com/027905_TSA_airport_security.html

[Nathan Miller]

Quite the topic here, fellas. A fair spectrum of opinion on the subject so far as well. Here's where I currently stand: I could be wrong about any of these points, but it's my 2 cents after reading not only your comments, but many articles on the topic.

I don't consider the scanners to be a virtual strip-down. I realize that the possibility of graphic images is real/likely. However, it seems clear that the images will not just be "out there" for people to see, as if it were a suitcase scanner belt. One person, or two or more people inspecting the images for signs of whatever they are looking for and then deleting the images is not really like actual removal of clothing for a strip search for example. I don't consider this to be necessarily humiliating nor compromising with the proper safeguards. If images were in plain sight of me or anyone else, that would not be the case, however. In this case, though, I think I would worry most about the people required to look at such images for hours at a time.

However, this isn't the real issue, I think. It's more a red-herring to bait the opposition and then clear it up with various exceptions, safeguards, etc. The real problem is more subtle. It is the radiation. And the incremental invasion of privacy. And the fact that these things likely won't help reduce the threat of terrorism any more than without them, as Dave clearly pointed out. If it's about security, let's do what really works to locate terror suspects. Something like what it appears the Israeli airline has been doing for years (and is considered the worlds safest airlines because of it). It's based on a simple passenger interview conducted before boarding with highly-trained interviewers who can spot any number of tell-tale signs of warning...no x-ray, nothing too invasive...

I'm hoping that we're not going to have to go through an airport that uses these things, but I can envision them becoming fairly widespread fast. Someone stands to make a lot of money on them, and that means that they've already put a lot of money into pushing them as the solution of the moment. It's makes me think of the ridiculous swine flu vaccine (in terms of the vaccine not having much effect, but being pushed, even mandated, completely ignoring the dangerous side effects, not to mention the darker side to flu vaccine creation/push in general.)

There's also the hideous feeling that people are becoming more and more used to being treated like cattle. Rounded up, pushed through, scanned.

And finally, on the topic of terrorism, I shall be utterly un-PC and call it Islamic terrorism. Islam to some extent at least is in a holy war with the west. This is something that is preached loud and clear from many a mosque. I don't mean of course that every Muslim is somehow at war with Christians, but that contained in the Koran itself, as you are probably all aware, are the very seeds, the very instructions for this holy war. If our leaders are too blind or ignorant or afraid to see this, they cannot and will not do any better on the subject of terrorism.

Now I know there are many serious people who consider the threat from terrorism to be at least less serious than they are, and at most a total hoax put on by the government for the purpose of seizing control of the population by means of fear. While I would agree that that method of controlling people has definitely been around as long as Satan has been using it, I worry just as much about the Islamic interests exerting more and more influence on our local and national governments through various alliances. Even Fox News is now inviting representatives from CAIR to be on their shows! (So I've read.)

So to sum it all up, while I do think the modesty issue is a valid point, the other issues are even stronger reasons for me and I think all of us to oppose the use of such scanners. As far as if and when they are imposed, I would probably take the pat-down at present, but maybe not. Otherwise, I'll avoid them if at all possible!

[David Huston]

Some say the govenment is inciting fear just so it can gain more control over us, but even if that is true, it doesn't mean the fear is not justified. It disturbs me greatly that we hear almost nothing anymore about the jihad against the West. It's a real thing, not just something made up by liberal fascists who want take over our society. They may be taking advantage of the threat to advance their own purposes, but it's a real threat nevertheless...and woe is us if we ignore it!

[Donnie Gillum]

Good statements, Brethren! As for me, all things considered, it's the health issue that matters most to me. Wonder how many of these scams (er...scans) the average healthy person can stand before they glow in the dark or come down with cancer?

[tom]

your response is very interesting. my question is how do we as Christians response to this if we feel our liberties are being compromised? what are our options according to scripture?

Sid Grimes said:

I would like to clarify that I do not for a minute think that there is not a group of extremist that would like to murder all of us "infidels". I truly know that these Jihadist are dangerous and want all people of the world to convert to the Muslim faith or to be killed.
With that said; I also do not think for a minute that there are not deceptive people that are in power that not only want total control of everything and every person in the world. Not only for greedy purposes but most of all to fit the need for power and control. No better way to seize control than through fear and manipulation. I have seen this work on any level and in any forum. The people in power right now in the USA have been qouted openly as saying not letting a good crisis go to waste. I think that some of the things that happen are authentic and they in turn manipulate it to their advantage to seize more control, and one way of accomplishing this is through removing liberties in trade for the false premise of security.

This post or my previous ones are to be in conflit with anyone elses view, but just as another point of view and how I feel led on this and like matters. Read it, consider it and discard it if you feel it is extreme and out there. On the other hand, just maybe things are not what they seem. All the supposed experts may just be in someones pocket. I think "global warming" for one out of many things has proven that. No doubt there is much that goes on under the cloak of deception. I think I'd be safe to say that the powers in charge are not above deception.

Anyway, the long and short of it is, we are talking about full body scanners. I have nothing to hide, so for me it is not a point of privacy. It is the principle behind my liberties that bothers me. Also, many of you have met me and seen me, so you know if they see my nakedness, they are the ones losing there.

So, with all that said, we all must make a decision. Do I want to relinquish more of my liberties, my privacy, my modesty, and from what I seen in many reliable articles, maybe even risk my present and future health, for the promise of more security from a government that can't keep illegals from crossing the borders and no names from just walking into the White House for a party. For me the answer is a resounding NO! I asked the question, where do we draw the line? For me, I draw it here.

[tom]

Hi Sid, i understand what you mean it is tough decision whether or not to protest speak up, or keep shut. You said the perfect thing though, you said that you have to TRUST the Lord Jesus more than ever before.It is so true, Jesus said that he would lead useven to the point that he would speak for us: Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.(as you can see it is all pertaining to preaching and suffering for the gospel) so we must follow.As for me i also like what bro Donnie said (2tim 2:4) you are in a war my brother you do'nt have any time for the things in this life.The word entangleth means to serve in a military campaign.The issue will get solved by our fight in prayer: Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. God i love the network lol
Sid Grimes said:

Hello Tom
I am certainly not advocating the breaking of law, at least as long as the law does not cause me to go against scripture. My primary way of working around this scanner thing is, that if I am required to go through this machine to fly, I simply will not fly.
Certainly there is my opinion no response as a Christian that would involve anything involving violence. The only thing I can see is that corporately we as ther Church have to stand together in opposition to tyranny. Make our voice be heard strongly and in harmony. I don't think the Lord is wanting us to be to deeply burdened with the things of this world. Yet, I also do not think he wants us to turn a blind eye to things that are deceptive. Most of us believe that it our duty to be part of electing leaders. So it would stand to reason that if we are part of electing them, there should be some accountability of them to us. I don't think we (I) need to be obssessed with the things of the world, but I do think we need to be aware of and wise to them. I seem to remember and probably paraphrasing here a couple pieces of text. One being, my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. This one can and does cover a wide spectrum of possibilities. The other I think says something along the lines of therefore being wise as serpents and harmless as doves(RE: as being sent among wolves).
Other than that, I will be perfectly honest with you, I do not know what can be done by anyone about what is coming down the pike to be honest with you. For me, to know as much about what is going on around me, at least gives me the heads up to try to make whatever decisions I can to avoid things that will be harmful to me physically, emotionally and most of all spiritually.
As far as scripure, the above would apply and I know that I need to be watchful for what goes on around me, see the signs of the times, be sober and vigilant, but most of all not allow anyting to distract me from seeking the Lord with all of my being and being ready for his soon appearing.
Would love to hear your thoughts on how we should respond or if we should. Other than sharing views with others, I am clueless of what else to do, but pray and trust God like never before.
But I will avoid anything instituted that I feel is harmful to me in any of the above mentioned areas and pray we can hold onto to some liberty in this country. If not, I will always be free in the Presence of the Lord.
Maybe this thought will have more light given by the other forum posted by Donnie Gillum on "entagleth in the affairs". This may shed more light on this whole thing. Some pretty good thoughts there already that may apply to this very question.
God Bless my friend


tom said:

your response is very interesting. my question is how do we as Christians response to this if we feel our liberties are being compromised? what are our options according to scripture?

Sid Grimes said:

I would like to clarify that I do not for a minute think that there is not a group of extremist that would like to murder all of us "infidels". I truly know that these Jihadist are dangerous and want all people of the world to convert to the Muslim faith or to be killed.
With that said; I also do not think for a minute that there are not deceptive people that are in power that not only want total control of everything and every person in the world. Not only for greedy purposes but most of all to fit the need for power and control. No better way to seize control than through fear and manipulation. I have seen this work on any level and in any forum. The people in power right now in the USA have been qouted openly as saying not letting a good crisis go to waste. I think that some of the things that happen are authentic and they in turn manipulate it to their advantage to seize more control, and one way of accomplishing this is through removing liberties in trade for the false premise of security.

This post or my previous ones are to be in conflit with anyone elses view, but just as another point of view and how I feel led on this and like matters. Read it, consider it and discard it if you feel it is extreme and out there. On the other hand, just maybe things are not what they seem. All the supposed experts may just be in someones pocket. I think "global warming" for one out of many things has proven that. No doubt there is much that goes on under the cloak of deception. I think I'd be safe to say that the powers in charge are not above deception.

Anyway, the long and short of it is, we are talking about full body scanners. I have nothing to hide, so for me it is not a point of privacy. It is the principle behind my liberties that bothers me. Also, many of you have met me and seen me, so you know if they see my nakedness, they are the ones losing there.

So, with all that said, we all must make a decision. Do I want to relinquish more of my liberties, my privacy, my modesty, and from what I seen in many reliable articles, maybe even risk my present and future health, for the promise of more security from a government that can't keep illegals from crossing the borders and no names from just walking into the White House for a party. For me the answer is a resounding NO! I asked the question, where do we draw the line? For me, I draw it here.

[Donnie Gillum]

HI Tom,

I think we are coming to the conclusion that all these things are indeed "forcing" us to lean upon the Lord and learn to trust Him - more! It could come to the point that we are forced at gun-point to undergo full body scams (er...I mean scans LOL!) at other checkpoint areas besides airports. No, this is NOT far-fetched either. They are already doing gun-point medicine so to speak. Remember the teenage boy in the news that didn't want to take chemo? Well the judge "ordered" it done anyway. We ARE loosing more and more liberties regardless what anyone thinks about conspiracy theories, or facts for that matter. As for me, I can feel myself looking to God more and more for answers, and if they aren't coming, knowing I'm gonna have to trust Him anyway.

Yes, it is a tough decision whether to speak up, take a stand etc.. I've had to draw the line in the sand and take action that I felt was appropriate - for me. Some are decisions I'm real sure very few apostolics would make. Yet, there are at the same time, others who have done the same on issues that I may balk at. You said it, Brother - tough decisions. That's one reason it's good to do as Bro. Dave has done, and ask others. I'll quit here, since it seems my response should have been on the forum post of "How Invovled Are We To Get" instead. LOL!