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Dear brethren, I recently became involved in a discussion about the name of Jesus with a women who posted a question on the Glorious Church website. Her name is Teuila Holding. Teuila maintains that we must use the name Yeshua and not Jesus. Below is the discussion beginning with the question she posted on the website and my response. The discussion has continued from there via email. I need your help in this because I feel as though I’ve used about everything in my arsenal. What am I missing here that might persuade her of her error?

Note: My comments begin with DH and her’s with Teuila.

 

Teuila’s original question: Where do you find in Scripture to support your theory that people were baptized in the name according to the language they speak, or that His name was changed based on what language you speak?

Answer on website: The very fact that the New Testament was written in Greek and the name Jesus written as Iesous rather that Yeshua is a good place to start. Also, the Bible recognizes that the peoples of the earth speak different languages according to God's own purpose (Genesis 11). We reject the idea that the Lord's name is being changed when it is transliterated from one language to another. It doesn't matter if a person is baptized in the name of Jesus, Yeshua, Yesha, Jesu, or Iesous. These are simply Anglicized versions of the letters which spell God’s name in various languages.

Notification to Teuila: Thank you for posting a question or comment on the Glorious Church website. We take all postings very seriously and do our best to provide solid and responsible answers. We have recently posted our response to your posting. Please keep in mind that we sometimes change the title to make the nature of the question clearer to others visiting the site. Thank you for participating and please continue to visit.

Teuila: Thank you. But with all due respect, you didn't give me scripture besides stating that there were different languages spoken, which we all know to be true. The response is telling me that man is the one who changed the name of God from language to language however where do we find in scripture that His name changed when speaking to someone in a different language, especially Baptism?

DH: The name did not change. If you spell Yeshua in Hebrew letters, no one in Greece will be able to say it (unless they speak Hebrew). So when you transliterate the Hebrew letters into Greek, it comes out Iesous (except it would be in Greek letters). This is not changing the name, it is only changing the language in which the name is said. It still means Yahweh is Salvation. When people read the New Testament letters in their original languages, they would have read the Lord’s name as Iesous. When it was translated into English, it became Jesus. When I was baptized, the name Jesus was called over me. I have baptized hundreds of people and have always called the name Jesus. You seem to be suggesting that we are not saved because we didn’t say Yeshua. If that is what you are saying, please explain why God had the NT written in Greek and why He didn’t make clear that the name must be uttered in the original Hebrew. I am interested in this, so I honestly want to know your explanation.

Teuila: Who came up with the name Iesous?You would like to know why he didn’t specify that His name had to be uttered in the original Hebrew but I’d like to know where he said that it was pronounced diff according to the language you spoke? My name is Polynesian, you don’t have to be or speak the Polynesian language to say my name. My husband speaks Spanish, my name wouldn’t change if he was introducing me to someone who speaks Spanish. In High School I had foreign exchange students who came down from Japan, one of their names were Jin Soo, didn’t have to speak their language to be able to call him by his name.

And I’m quite confused when you say the name did not change yet Yeshua, Iesous and Jesus are all spelled 3 different ways and pronounced differently so how is that a direct transliteration or the same? How would you know how to pronounce Yeshua if you don’t speak Hebrew ( unless you do) those are not Hebrew letters so then wouldn’t Yeshua be the direct transliteration from Hebrew to English? I can’t read Hebrew but I can read/say Yeshua just fine.

DH: The name Iesous in Greek letters is the name as it appears throughout the New Testament. So I guess you could say that the New Testament writers came up with it under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. If we use your logic, then we should always use the Greek name Iesous and never use the Hebrew name Yeshua. But I have answered enough questions for a while. My question to you is, where does this leave all of us who were baptized in the name of JESUS?

Teuila: You can’t start from Jesus and try to figure out how that name came about. You have to start from the beginning in the old Testament with Yahweh (which they changed that too) then you will see that Yahweh was a lot of things to them but the greatest thing he could become for us was our salvation. Yahweh-Yasha. Yeshua. It’s the fulfillment of scripture of Yahweh coming himself to save his people when you say Yeshua. There’s no salvation in any other name. Singular. He wasn’t called anything other than Yeshua bc then that would break scripture. In Isaiah 56 he said that he’d give an everlasting name (singular) that would not be cut off. When names were changed in scripture it was obvious, for instance in Revelation 9 it specifically states that the name was diff in the Hebrew and Greek. We don’t find anywhere that his name was called something else from one language to the next.

DH: You did not answer my question. You also did not explain why the New Testament uses Iesous instead of Yeshua. Please respond to these issues. Thanks.

Teuila: The New Testament was written during a period called Hellenism where King Alexander the Great came in and was changing everything to Greek, names and all. Also weren’t there some names used both in the Old and New Testament? Why didn’t those names change then too? Can you please answer then where Iesous was derived from?

DH: The New Testament was written in the first century AD. Alexander the Great lived in the 4th century BC, 400 years before the New Testament era. Your explanation is historically impossible. The name Joshua (Yehoshua) of the Old Testament appears as Jesus in the KJB. The Old Testament name Elijah (Eliyahu) appears as Elias in the New. There are other examples. These names were not changed or translated; they were transliterated. This is the practice of exchanging the letter equivalents of the two languages (in this case Hebrew and Greek). That’s where Iesous came from. It is a transliteration from Hebrew letters to the equivalent Greek letters. It is the same name. You still haven’t said where your ideas leave me and all the others who have been baptized in the name of JESUS. Do we need to be re-baptized in the name of Yeshua to be saved?

Teuila: I understand what transliteration means and it would be to get the same sound so we would be pronouncing it the same way in our own language. What name was Iesous derived from? Yeshua correct?

Yes, I believe you have to be re baptized. The letter J wasn’t even created until the 16th century and the name Jesus wasn’t even used in the Bible until 200+ years ago. In the KJV 1611 Bible the scripture recorded his name as Iesus, 1617 it was Lefus and in 1722 it was Jefus Chrift.. So that’s the English language, so then that means that since the name Jesus wasn’t used in the English bible all those years, no one up until that point has a chance to make it to heaven bc they weren’t baptized in the name Jesus?

DH: You are incorrect about the name Jesus in the King James Bible. The letter J existed in 1611, it’s just that it was formed differently in formal type setting. Same with the letter S. The people of England knew the name Jesus in 1611 just as they do today. You seem to be suggesting that according to my beliefs, no one could have been saved in 1611 because they could not know the name Jesus. If I need to be baptized again to be saved, how should that baptism be done, what should be said? I am very serious about asking this because if I have it wrong, I want to get it right. I don’t really care about winning arguments, I just want to be saved. So what do I need to do?

Teuila: Well I can’t say whether or not they knew the name Jesus or not in 1611 but it wasn’t recorded in scripture until after 1722. I don’t find anywhere in the scripture where Yeshua’s name changes from on language to the next. Your name doesn’t change if you go to another country where they speak another language. Who are we to change God’s name? Salvation is in The name of Yeshua. Baptism in the name of Yeshua.

DH: It is not true that the name Jesus did not appear in the King James Bible until 1722. It was there in 1611, it’s just that some of the letters were formed differently from what we recognize today. It is also not true that your name would not change if you went to a foreign country. If you a man named Joseph went to Mexico, he would be called Jose. If a woman named Ruth went to Israel, she would be called Rut (with a long u sound). If a man named Michael went to Russia, he would be called Mikhail. When the writers of the New Testament wrote the Lord’s name, they wrote Iesous. They never wrote Yeshua. It almost seems as though you do not consider the New Testament to be part of the holy Word of God. Is that true?

Teuila: Well in my research the name Jesus did not appear until after 1722. I would say that if you were born in Mexico, you’re more likely to be named Jose not Joseph. That doesn’t mean that’s what they’re going to call you. That may be more common in their language but they’re not going to change your namer you go there, they have no right to. Where would your identity be in your name changed everywhere you went? And of course I consider the NT as part of the holy Word. Just bc it was never written doesn’t mean that wasn’t his name. It was man who changed the name of God, something we had no right to do.

DH: You seem to be unwilling to deal with the fact that the entire New Testament identifies the Lord’s name as Iesous (in Greek letters). It never calls Him Yeshua (using either Greek or Hebrew letters). So you can say all you want that everyone must call Him Yeshua, regardless of their language, but your whole theory falls apart as soon as you read Matthew 1:1.

Teuila: I’m sorry, I would’ve responded sooner but for some reason your email went straight to my junk folder. I’m not quite sure how it all falls apart after reading Matthew 1:1.

In Revelation 22:2 shows us that Paul (Saul) was speaking in the Hebrew tongue. Not for their benefit bc they knew what language they were speaking but for ours. They spoke, taught and preached the name Yeshua so why aren’t we doing what the apostles did? John 3:18 But he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name ((singular, one name)) of the only begotten Son of God.. Couldn’t have been Jesus bc that name never existed.

DH: Are you American or Polynesian? Or something else?

Teuila: My mom is Puerto Rican, my dad was mainly Polynesian and Italian. My husband’s mom is Puerto Rican and black and his dad is Irish and Native American.

DH: Do you live in the US and speak English as your primary language?

Teuila: Yes, of course.

DH: So you are an English speaking American who has a Polynesian name. Is that right?

Teuila: Yes. Which then you will try to justify that even tho He was a Jew who spoke Hebrew had a Greek name, and I would justify it saying that just bc I’m not Hebrew nor speak Hebrew doesn’t mean I cant say his name in Hebrew. Just like you don’t have to be or speak Polynesian to say my name. But again you haven’t answered any of my questions nor do I find in scripture where his name was pronounced differently from one language to the next. As we know names are very significant and have meaning and purpose throughout the whole bible. Esau means Red bc he came out that way, Jacob heel-holder, supplanter. Sarah to Sarai, Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel and many more yet we don’t find that about Yeshua’s name. So the fact that you’re trying to downplay the significance of a name, especially when it comes to our Saviour is not so convincing. Our God is very specific, the Arc, The Tabernacle, so again hard to see where His name would just be called anything and change from one language to the next.

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MICHAEL AND DELLA WINSKIE said:

I do agree that it is the Lord who does the work. However, he has instructed us to use his name. We are to pray in his name, baptize in his name, worship and praise in his name, work in his name, etc. So, while it is the Lord that does the work and never us, it is the use of his name that he uses to release into motion whatever it is he wants to do through and in us. 

Ok.  You talked me into it.  ;)  I'll try to keep this somewhat on topic.

So, I have to give another hypothetical situation.  Hypotheticals are used to narrow down on specific principles.  This one really isn't that far out.  Here it goes.

--- begin hypothetical ---

A new member approaches a minister about being baptized.  The minister likes to handle this on a one-on-one basis, so they meet after work every night for a week and the minister teaches the new member about baptism.  The minister teaches that baptism is performed in Jesus name, meaning in the authority of Jesus, obeying the command of Jesus, being baptized "into" Jesus, "into the death" of Jesus, "into the burial" of Jesusinto the Church of Jesus, into the Body of Jesus, into the Bride of Jesus, as a follower of Jesus, etc.  The minister is happy that the new member has learned all this and that he is in complete agreement, so he asks the new member to come to the church on Saturday to be baptized.  Saturday comes around and they both arrive at the church.  Only the minister and the new member are present.  The minister reviews all the teaching, including the fact that the baptism is performed in Jesus name.  The new member agrees wholeheartedly with the teaching.  After the review, the minister baptizes him, but says NOTHING during the actual baptism.  They pray and go their separate ways.

--- end hypothetical ---

   <dramatic pause>

I don't know a single serious Apostolic who would agree that this is a legitimate baptism: even though it was clear to all present that the baptism was done "in Jesus name", the guy wasn't legitimately baptized in Jesus name because the minister didn't "vibrate the air" by saying the words "in Jesus name" while baptizing the guy.

If "vibrating the air" really DOES matter, then perhaps it also matters HOW we vibrate the air (e.g., "Jesus" vs "Yeshua").

--- Mike R. Prevost

I understand your hypothetical, bro. But, by the same notion, I don't know a single Apostolic that would "say nothing" in that situation. They would say the name during baptism, not just teach it. 

MICHAEL AND DELLA WINSKIE said:

I understand your hypothetical, bro. But, by the same notion, I don't know a single Apostolic that would "say nothing" in that situation. They would say the name during baptism, not just teach it. 


So would I.  But maybe not for the same reasons.

--- Mike R. Prevost

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