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Dear brethren, I recently became involved in a discussion about the name of Jesus with a women who posted a question on the Glorious Church website. Her name is Teuila Holding. Teuila maintains that we must use the name Yeshua and not Jesus. Below is the discussion beginning with the question she posted on the website and my response. The discussion has continued from there via email. I need your help in this because I feel as though I’ve used about everything in my arsenal. What am I missing here that might persuade her of her error?

Note: My comments begin with DH and her’s with Teuila.

 

Teuila’s original question: Where do you find in Scripture to support your theory that people were baptized in the name according to the language they speak, or that His name was changed based on what language you speak?

Answer on website: The very fact that the New Testament was written in Greek and the name Jesus written as Iesous rather that Yeshua is a good place to start. Also, the Bible recognizes that the peoples of the earth speak different languages according to God's own purpose (Genesis 11). We reject the idea that the Lord's name is being changed when it is transliterated from one language to another. It doesn't matter if a person is baptized in the name of Jesus, Yeshua, Yesha, Jesu, or Iesous. These are simply Anglicized versions of the letters which spell God’s name in various languages.

Notification to Teuila: Thank you for posting a question or comment on the Glorious Church website. We take all postings very seriously and do our best to provide solid and responsible answers. We have recently posted our response to your posting. Please keep in mind that we sometimes change the title to make the nature of the question clearer to others visiting the site. Thank you for participating and please continue to visit.

Teuila: Thank you. But with all due respect, you didn't give me scripture besides stating that there were different languages spoken, which we all know to be true. The response is telling me that man is the one who changed the name of God from language to language however where do we find in scripture that His name changed when speaking to someone in a different language, especially Baptism?

DH: The name did not change. If you spell Yeshua in Hebrew letters, no one in Greece will be able to say it (unless they speak Hebrew). So when you transliterate the Hebrew letters into Greek, it comes out Iesous (except it would be in Greek letters). This is not changing the name, it is only changing the language in which the name is said. It still means Yahweh is Salvation. When people read the New Testament letters in their original languages, they would have read the Lord’s name as Iesous. When it was translated into English, it became Jesus. When I was baptized, the name Jesus was called over me. I have baptized hundreds of people and have always called the name Jesus. You seem to be suggesting that we are not saved because we didn’t say Yeshua. If that is what you are saying, please explain why God had the NT written in Greek and why He didn’t make clear that the name must be uttered in the original Hebrew. I am interested in this, so I honestly want to know your explanation.

Teuila: Who came up with the name Iesous?You would like to know why he didn’t specify that His name had to be uttered in the original Hebrew but I’d like to know where he said that it was pronounced diff according to the language you spoke? My name is Polynesian, you don’t have to be or speak the Polynesian language to say my name. My husband speaks Spanish, my name wouldn’t change if he was introducing me to someone who speaks Spanish. In High School I had foreign exchange students who came down from Japan, one of their names were Jin Soo, didn’t have to speak their language to be able to call him by his name.

And I’m quite confused when you say the name did not change yet Yeshua, Iesous and Jesus are all spelled 3 different ways and pronounced differently so how is that a direct transliteration or the same? How would you know how to pronounce Yeshua if you don’t speak Hebrew ( unless you do) those are not Hebrew letters so then wouldn’t Yeshua be the direct transliteration from Hebrew to English? I can’t read Hebrew but I can read/say Yeshua just fine.

DH: The name Iesous in Greek letters is the name as it appears throughout the New Testament. So I guess you could say that the New Testament writers came up with it under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. If we use your logic, then we should always use the Greek name Iesous and never use the Hebrew name Yeshua. But I have answered enough questions for a while. My question to you is, where does this leave all of us who were baptized in the name of JESUS?

Teuila: You can’t start from Jesus and try to figure out how that name came about. You have to start from the beginning in the old Testament with Yahweh (which they changed that too) then you will see that Yahweh was a lot of things to them but the greatest thing he could become for us was our salvation. Yahweh-Yasha. Yeshua. It’s the fulfillment of scripture of Yahweh coming himself to save his people when you say Yeshua. There’s no salvation in any other name. Singular. He wasn’t called anything other than Yeshua bc then that would break scripture. In Isaiah 56 he said that he’d give an everlasting name (singular) that would not be cut off. When names were changed in scripture it was obvious, for instance in Revelation 9 it specifically states that the name was diff in the Hebrew and Greek. We don’t find anywhere that his name was called something else from one language to the next.

DH: You did not answer my question. You also did not explain why the New Testament uses Iesous instead of Yeshua. Please respond to these issues. Thanks.

Teuila: The New Testament was written during a period called Hellenism where King Alexander the Great came in and was changing everything to Greek, names and all. Also weren’t there some names used both in the Old and New Testament? Why didn’t those names change then too? Can you please answer then where Iesous was derived from?

DH: The New Testament was written in the first century AD. Alexander the Great lived in the 4th century BC, 400 years before the New Testament era. Your explanation is historically impossible. The name Joshua (Yehoshua) of the Old Testament appears as Jesus in the KJB. The Old Testament name Elijah (Eliyahu) appears as Elias in the New. There are other examples. These names were not changed or translated; they were transliterated. This is the practice of exchanging the letter equivalents of the two languages (in this case Hebrew and Greek). That’s where Iesous came from. It is a transliteration from Hebrew letters to the equivalent Greek letters. It is the same name. You still haven’t said where your ideas leave me and all the others who have been baptized in the name of JESUS. Do we need to be re-baptized in the name of Yeshua to be saved?

Teuila: I understand what transliteration means and it would be to get the same sound so we would be pronouncing it the same way in our own language. What name was Iesous derived from? Yeshua correct?

Yes, I believe you have to be re baptized. The letter J wasn’t even created until the 16th century and the name Jesus wasn’t even used in the Bible until 200+ years ago. In the KJV 1611 Bible the scripture recorded his name as Iesus, 1617 it was Lefus and in 1722 it was Jefus Chrift.. So that’s the English language, so then that means that since the name Jesus wasn’t used in the English bible all those years, no one up until that point has a chance to make it to heaven bc they weren’t baptized in the name Jesus?

DH: You are incorrect about the name Jesus in the King James Bible. The letter J existed in 1611, it’s just that it was formed differently in formal type setting. Same with the letter S. The people of England knew the name Jesus in 1611 just as they do today. You seem to be suggesting that according to my beliefs, no one could have been saved in 1611 because they could not know the name Jesus. If I need to be baptized again to be saved, how should that baptism be done, what should be said? I am very serious about asking this because if I have it wrong, I want to get it right. I don’t really care about winning arguments, I just want to be saved. So what do I need to do?

Teuila: Well I can’t say whether or not they knew the name Jesus or not in 1611 but it wasn’t recorded in scripture until after 1722. I don’t find anywhere in the scripture where Yeshua’s name changes from on language to the next. Your name doesn’t change if you go to another country where they speak another language. Who are we to change God’s name? Salvation is in The name of Yeshua. Baptism in the name of Yeshua.

DH: It is not true that the name Jesus did not appear in the King James Bible until 1722. It was there in 1611, it’s just that some of the letters were formed differently from what we recognize today. It is also not true that your name would not change if you went to a foreign country. If you a man named Joseph went to Mexico, he would be called Jose. If a woman named Ruth went to Israel, she would be called Rut (with a long u sound). If a man named Michael went to Russia, he would be called Mikhail. When the writers of the New Testament wrote the Lord’s name, they wrote Iesous. They never wrote Yeshua. It almost seems as though you do not consider the New Testament to be part of the holy Word of God. Is that true?

Teuila: Well in my research the name Jesus did not appear until after 1722. I would say that if you were born in Mexico, you’re more likely to be named Jose not Joseph. That doesn’t mean that’s what they’re going to call you. That may be more common in their language but they’re not going to change your namer you go there, they have no right to. Where would your identity be in your name changed everywhere you went? And of course I consider the NT as part of the holy Word. Just bc it was never written doesn’t mean that wasn’t his name. It was man who changed the name of God, something we had no right to do.

DH: You seem to be unwilling to deal with the fact that the entire New Testament identifies the Lord’s name as Iesous (in Greek letters). It never calls Him Yeshua (using either Greek or Hebrew letters). So you can say all you want that everyone must call Him Yeshua, regardless of their language, but your whole theory falls apart as soon as you read Matthew 1:1.

Teuila: I’m sorry, I would’ve responded sooner but for some reason your email went straight to my junk folder. I’m not quite sure how it all falls apart after reading Matthew 1:1.

In Revelation 22:2 shows us that Paul (Saul) was speaking in the Hebrew tongue. Not for their benefit bc they knew what language they were speaking but for ours. They spoke, taught and preached the name Yeshua so why aren’t we doing what the apostles did? John 3:18 But he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name ((singular, one name)) of the only begotten Son of God.. Couldn’t have been Jesus bc that name never existed.

DH: Are you American or Polynesian? Or something else?

Teuila: My mom is Puerto Rican, my dad was mainly Polynesian and Italian. My husband’s mom is Puerto Rican and black and his dad is Irish and Native American.

DH: Do you live in the US and speak English as your primary language?

Teuila: Yes, of course.

DH: So you are an English speaking American who has a Polynesian name. Is that right?

Teuila: Yes. Which then you will try to justify that even tho He was a Jew who spoke Hebrew had a Greek name, and I would justify it saying that just bc I’m not Hebrew nor speak Hebrew doesn’t mean I cant say his name in Hebrew. Just like you don’t have to be or speak Polynesian to say my name. But again you haven’t answered any of my questions nor do I find in scripture where his name was pronounced differently from one language to the next. As we know names are very significant and have meaning and purpose throughout the whole bible. Esau means Red bc he came out that way, Jacob heel-holder, supplanter. Sarah to Sarai, Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel and many more yet we don’t find that about Yeshua’s name. So the fact that you’re trying to downplay the significance of a name, especially when it comes to our Saviour is not so convincing. Our God is very specific, the Arc, The Tabernacle, so again hard to see where His name would just be called anything and change from one language to the next.

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Mike,

I believe in each of the instances you cited, the word "yeshua/yeshuah" is in a compound form such as in Isaiah 12. Please let me make clear that my objective in all this is not to refute any particular spelling or pronunciation; it is simply to show that it is impossible to nail down exactly what name the Lord bore. If the angel's statement, "You shall call His name Iesous," is in fact a translation into Greek of what the angel actually spoke in the Hebrew language, then we still have no way of knowing precisely what name the angel uttered. Was it Yeshua, Yehoshua, or Yehsuah? Frankly, Yeshuah seems problematic to me because the hey at the end gives it a feminine gender. It hardly seems likely that when God took on male flesh He would have taken a female name. At least Yeshua is in the masculine gender. 



David Huston said:

Mike,

I believe in each of the instances you cited, the word "yeshua/yeshuah" is in a compound form such as in Isaiah 12. Please let me make clear that my objective in all this is not to refute any particular spelling or pronunciation; it is simply to show that it is impossible to nail down exactly what name the Lord bore. If the angel's statement, "You shall call His name Iesous," is in fact a translation into Greek of what the angel actually spoke in the Hebrew language, then we still have no way of knowing precisely what name the angel uttered. Was it Yeshua, Yehoshua, or Yehsuah? Frankly, Yeshuah seems problematic to me because the hey at the end gives it a feminine gender. It hardly seems likely that when God took on male flesh He would have taken a female name. At least Yeshua is in the masculine gender.

Me:

Yes I agree it is very difficult when you consider all that is in the mix. There are even more possibilities. I really have a hard time thinking the angel told Hebrew parents to name their son who would be Israels Messiah a Greek name.

We know that Hebrew was still a living language in the days of Yeshua. His name was written over the cross in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. Later on Paul made a point when Christ appeared to him to note he spoke to him in Hebrew. When Paul spoke to the Hebrews he did it in their tongue in Acts 22:2.

I know when Tyndale translated the New Testament he had no Hebrew copy to work with so he translated what he had. From that we get Jesus. Nothing wrong there. It is what it is.

I do believe its a worthy topic of discussion. I actually have spent probably hundreds of hours reading online studies about this but because of my own lack of knowledge of Hebrew I cannot be say I have the truth nailed down.

Dave, We know the Greeks added the "s" onto the Hebrew name to show gender. When we bring the Greek over to the English why do we continue to carry the "s"? As far as I know our language doesn't require it. I know some translators early on did leave the "s" behind and "Jesu" was used among us. Your thoughts?

I don't know the answer to that. I do know that He is called Jesu among those who speak French.

Hi JR,

We do sound alike Bro. Maybe we can talk sometime? I am definitely not your typical Apostolic.

Brethren, I wrote to Teuila on Monday and asked her to give me three verses in the New Testament that specifically state that the Lord should be called Yeshua. She has not responded. I wrote her again yesterday and asked if she got my email from Monday but she has not responded. I'll let you know if I hear back from her. If I don't, then I suppose this forum has reach the end of its life.

Here is the latest diolog between me and Teuila...

DH: Well Teuila, since you haven't responded to me all week, I'm supposing that you no longer wish to discuss this topic with me. I hope you are okay and something hasn't happen to you. After all of the back and forth, it just seems odd that you would suddenly stop responding at all to me emails. Anyway, I put together one last set of thoughts on this topic. I would really like to hear what you have to say about this, but if I never hear back from you I will assume that for some reason you no longer wish to discuss this matter with me.

Teuila: Hi! I'm sorry for not getting back to you. I didn't fully read everything you wrote in depth. I suppose I just don't understand how if you know Jesus wasn't the name given, yet continue to preach it anyways and assume that God understands who your calling on, it's like someone calling me Becky, although that's not my name, in their mind they're mentally thinking of me assuming I know who they re talking about. I can't say I've spoken to anyone who didn't believe his name was Yeshua in Hebrew. I've even spoke to Jehovah's Witnesses who agree his name is Yeshua in Hebrew and that's what he was called but admitted that Jesus is more "popular" and common today.

As specific as God is throughout the whole Bible I don't believe that something as important as his name he would leave us guessing as we know how important his name is and being baptized in his name. You don't Think the people who get baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, didn't know what his name was? Of course they did, and yet they get baptized again in his name bc there's power in his name and not titles but mentally they know what that name is but is not the same thing.

You keep trying to justify and find reason as to why we don't call him Yeshua today instead of accepting his name as that. Acts 9:5. Yeshua is the English transliterarion of how it'd be pronounced in Hebrew, when you see Yeshua, you are seeing the English language alphabet, not symbols. Acts 22:2- speaking in the Hebrew tongue, they heard Yeshua. Neither is there salvation in any other name (singular). Yeshua, Iesous, Jesus are not the same. You can't look at all 3 words, spelled and sounded differently and say they're the same thing. My name is Teuila no matter where I go, no matter who im talking to, or what language you're speaking, bottom line. How can you be married to one bride if his name keeps changing in every language? Do you go to a foreign country that pronounces Jesus in their language differently than English, in the name of Jesus or in their language?

We are espoused to one as a chaste virgin, not one with many names. I'm multiple ethnicities who all speak a different language, so if I go to my Spanish speaking side of the family, are they going to call me something different than my Polynesian side, Italian side? No.. They all know me by my one name. I see YHWH + Salvation. YHWH + Yasha. Yeshua. Fulfillment of scripture as YHWH robing himself in flesh to save us from our sins. I have no problem seeing that. You know his name wasn't Jesus yet continue to preach Jesus anyways.

DH: You keep saying the same thing while ignoring everything I've written. I have asked you twice now to give me some verses from the New Testament that specifically state that the name of the Lord is Yeshua. You haven't given me any, because you know as well as I do that there aren't any. You can say all you want that Iesous is a made-up name, but the fact is that God Himself chose to use that name when He inspired the New Testament to be written in Greek rather than Hebrew. You seem to be completely blind to the truth here. For example, I'm not trying to prove His name was not Yeshua (I already said that I hope it was). I'm only saying that we cannot know for certain what name He was given since the only record we have is written in Greek. Your whole belief system is based on supposition while mine is based on the actual written record. I hope you will reconsider, because if you are telling people who have been baptized in the name of Jesus that they need to be rebaptized in the name of Yeshua, you are doing great damage to the kingdom of God.

Teuila: With all due respect, I'm not ignoring what your saying as just as much as you're not taking what I'm saying either. When you realize that the name of Jesus was not his name, you see throughout the whole Bible the name of Yeshua. So to put it in black and white everywhere you'd see Jesus, since we established that wasn't the name given, it'd be Yeshua. Hallelujah is a universal word understood in all languages so how/why can you say that but can't call God by his name in Hebrew?

No one disagrees that Iesous was derived from Yeshua, you'll find that in the Encyclopedia, dictionary and concordance. The spoken language was Hebrew, Yeshua was Hebrew who spoke Hebrew yet had a Greek name? No, man changed it to the Greek, you cannot change Gods name. You can't ignore history and the period of Hellenism that took place during the writing of the New Testament. I've asked you to show me how Iesous means YHWH is Salvation. I don't understand how my belief is based upon supposition yet you "hope" that his name was Yeshua and that we cannot know for certain what name was given. Now why would God do that? Why would God leave us to guess and hope that we make it to heaven bc no one really knows what his name was so really it doesn't matter what we call him bc he knows? Then baptism wouldn't matter, salvation wouldn't matter bc no one really knows what his name is anyways. I'm sorry but I read straight and narrow is the way and few be there that find It and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? I don't believe God would leave us to chance on salvation and hope were doing it the right way. I have faith that God has a plan for his remnant and will lead us into paths of righteousness for His name sake.

DH: If you had been reading what I was sending you, you would know the Iesous is used to translate several Hebrew names, not just Yeshua. Since the only written record of the angel telling Joseph what to name the Christ child is written in Greek (by God's own choice), how can we possibly know for certain which name the angel actually said. Also, there are plenty who do not believe Iesous was derived from Greek, particularly several second century writers who believed Iesous was an independently Greek name before it was ever used to translate Yeshua, Yehoshua, or Yeshu.

Once again you have failed to give me even one verse in the New Testament where the Lord is identified by the name Yeshua. I'll settle for one in the Old Testament. If you can provide this, I will agree with everything you have said.

Teuila: Well since you disregarded what I had said earlier about Jesus not being his name everywhere you'd see Jesus it'd be Yeshua... (And when they heard that he spake in the HEBREW tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Yeshua of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. (Acts 22:2, 6). They didn't say they spake in the Hebrew tongue for their benefit but for ours as readers, They would've heard and understood the name Yeshua.

DH: Nice try. But you could be speaking English and say your name is Teuila, which is a name from a different language. The fact that He was speaking Hebrew does not prove He said Yeshua. You are trying to force the Scriptures to fit your doctrine instead of simply allowing the Scriptures to speak for themselves. Again, I'm not saying His name wasn't Yeshua, I'm only saying that it cannot be proven from the Bible. You asked a very good question when you said, "Why would God leave us to guess and hope that we make it to heaven bc no one really knows what his name was so really it doesn't matter what we call him bc he knows?" I believe the answer is that God understands that it is unreasonable for everyone to have to pronounce a name perfectly in order to be saved. The point is not the name, it is the One who bears the name. I have given you the example before that in Africa people say my name in a variety of ways, but I'm sharp enough to recognized when I am being spoken to, and I don't think I'm nearly as sharp as the Lord. The name Yeshua/Iesous/Jesus is not intended to work like a magic formula, it is intended to identify the one true God who took on human flesh and offered Himself up for the sins of man. Again, if you are telling people it must be Yeshua and no other pronunciation is efficacious, you are doing damage to the work of God.

Teuila: So if it doesn't mean that he didn't say Yeshua then what was said? Bc he didn't say Jesus. Maybe you don't want to see that that's what it means but you can't say that it doesn't. I also don't see how a Hebrew Jew would have a Greek name and then translated to a Latinized Greek name. We're talking about the name of God, again, man can't change Gods name. You can't change what God sets in order. I didn't say it has to be pronounced perfectly spot on as I'm sure I don't pronounce Yeshua as a pure Hebrew would but scripture teaches there's one name given, not many different names depending on what language you speak. Just like if I say rojo (red) in Spanish or rolling my R like a true Spanish speaking person would doesn't change the word, they'd still understand what color I was trying to say. And my thoughts go back to again about baptism, when people are baptized in titles they know who bears those titles and yet you would tell them that that's not sufficient bc in fact the point is the name, the name matters, bc there's salvation in that name, there's power in that name, there's healing in that name so when you say the point is not the name I'd have to disagree with you bc that completely goes against scripture and the significance of his name. Only 8 souls were saved by water, you can't tell me that God isn't specific. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.. Just like you wouldn't agree with someone calling him Allah, well they're referring to God in their mind so it's the same thing, God understands what they really mean.

DH: OK, let's look at Acts 4:12. Peter says, "There is no other name...." What name is he referring to. Obviously it is a name he has just previously mentioned. If we go back a few verses, we read that the Jewish rulers had asked, "By what power or by what name have you done this?" (Acts 4:7). Peter then says, "Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth" (Acts 4:8-10). The author of this passage was Luke, who was a Greek-speaking non-Jew. Yet God chose him to write to Theophilus, another Greek, to tell him about the rise of Christianity. So by God's sovereign choice we have a significant part of the Word of God written by a Greek to a Greek in the language of the Greeks. There is no earthly reason to think that the Book of Acts was originally written in Hebrew, and even if it was, there are no extant copies to examine. So where do we see the name Yeshua either mentioned or implied in this passage? The only name breathed out by God was Iesous. Did God change the name? No, He only spoke in a different language.

Teuila: And I'm sorry but who decided that Iesous meant God? Where do you see YHWH is salvation? Do you not consider the era of Hellenism and what happened during that period of time when the NT was written had none affect?

DH: You are avoiding responding to what I explained about Acts 4:12. If you want me to respond to your comments, then you need to respond to mine. Where do you find the name Yeshua in Acts 4? Please explain.

Teuila: Well I don't see the Greek language when you write Iesous, that's English letters. You said The only name breathed out by God was Iesous. So then how can you say that that wasn't the name given? So when your in Jordan what name do you preach, what do you baptize in? Jesus and Yesha are two diff names pronounced two diff ways. If you said Jesus do they not know how to pronounce it or can they not say it?

As I've already said, Jesus wasn't his name, so when it says Jesus, it's Yeshua. I don't see anywhere in scripture where the name was changed or pronounced differently from one language to another.

DH: When I say Jesus, they translate it into their language so people can understand it. If you don't like Iesous, how about éçóïõò. But what does it accomplish to write it in Greek letters? You're not writing Yeshua in Hebrew letter. I can do that if you like because I studied Hebrew, but if I did, how many people would have any idea what I'm talking about? So let's not go off the deep end here.

Teuila: I'm not going off the deep end, I'm just saying, when I see éùåòä.. I don't know what letter is what and what sounds which way. So the direct transliteration from the Hebrew éùåòä to English is Yeshua. Therefore when I see Yeshua, I can see and understand that that's how I would say it in English.

DH: OK, but the same can be said of Iesous. I'm just saying, let's stay with the real essence of this matter and not worry about Greek and Hebrew letters.

Teuila: However even if you wanted to start from a "top down experience" in the concordance when you look up 2424, it states from the Hebrew origin 3091 Yeshua. So do we now then not believe the information given is accurate?

DH: We cannot rely on the information 100%. Strong's Concordance is good, but it was put together over a hundred years ago. A lot of research has resulted in a better understanding of ancient languages today than existed back then. As I mentioned, some second century writers stated that Iesous was a Greek name long before it was used to translate Yeshua/Yehoshu/Yeshu. But there is really no way to prove this one way or the other. The thing is, the only starting place we have is the Greek New Testament. You have to start there and work your way back to get to a Hebrew name. That name may be Yeshua or it may be Yehoshua or it may be Yeshu. Who can say for sure?

Teuila: You'd have to take into consideration the period of time that it was written in, Hellenism, strict Greek... I would refer that to digging and digging until you find truth, for many many years people were using the Greek bc that's what man changed it to. Like I said, you can't change what God sets in place, if it was meant to be Greek it'd stay Greek and there wouldn't anything before that. But again we don't see that here as it wasn't until later that it was used to translate into Yeshua. I'd understand and agree with the slight different accentuating between Yeshua, Yehoshua or Yeshu, helping to pronounce His name, But from Yeshua to Iesous to Jesus, are not just slight accents from one to the other.

DH: Teuila, you said, "you can't change what God sets in place." I agree. So are you saying that the Book of Acts was changed into Greek by man? Do you believe the entire New Testament was originally written in Hebrew and was changed by man?

Teuila: I researched enough to see that no one can "prove" that there were any documents of the NT written in Hebrew. I'm saying that during that period of time during Hellenism that names were being changed from the Hebrew to the Greek.

DH: So you agree that the Book of Acts was written by Luke to Theophius in Greek, their native language?

Teuila: Sure I believe that he was Greek however that doesn't mean that Gods name was Greek. Just as we see where they clearly spoke Hebrew in Acts 22:2, you don't see in scriptures His name changing from one language to another.

Again, I also don't believe that God would just leave us to guess as it's just as saying well everyone's going to heaven bc no one really knows how to get there anyways, maybe God put it that way so we'd keep digging to truly find out who he is bc he wants people who are going to seek him with their whole hearts.

DH: He didn't leave us to guess, he left us to speak in our own languages. You still have not explained where any reasonable person could derive Yeshua out of Acts 4:6-12.

Teuila: Sure I have. Jesus was not his name, so you can start there. When you see that was not the name given, so then you keep digging to find out what name was given by praying, fasting and studying, you keep digging. You build from the beginning and build your foundation, not start from Jesus and try to figure out Yeshua. Studying in your concordance YHWH + Yasha (salvation) Yeshua YHWH is my salvation (3444). Again a Fulfillment of scripture that YHWH came himself to save us from our sins. I have no problem seeing or understanding that. So from there you can read on in the name of Yeshua and have a whole new understanding and how powerful scripture becomes when you realize every time you say Yeshua it is God keeping his promise to us.

DH: Those were Jews speaking Hebrew in Acts 22. Of course they understood. But what about everyone else? The truth is, God set in place the fact that the New Testament was written in Greek and we should not be trying to change that. Why did He do this? Because the gospel was for the whole world, not just the Israelites, and Greek was the language of the world. Even most Hebrew-speaking Israelites spoke Greek to some degree just as most Yoruba-speaking Nigerians also speak English to some degree.

Even though it was written in Greek, God could have inspired the writers to use the Hebrew name Yeshua if He was concerned that the whole world call Him by that name. It would have been no different from you using your Polynesian name while writing a letter in English. But God didnt. He inspired the writers to use the Greek name.

To me, it would have been very unfair and unkind of God to have obscured His name from so many people by employing the Greek version of Yeshua. For example, when Theophilus read Luke’s account of the early church, how would it have been possible for him to have known that God expected him to be baptized in the name of Yeshua. Not only would it have been unreasonable for God to expect someone reading the Greek text to figure that out, it would have been impossible.

So has she been baptized into the name Yeshua? Or is she wanting someone to baptize her that way? I personally would be glad to see her baptized that way, so long as she is not forcing it on someone else. Suppose she is not baptized at all? She would then not have fulfilled the way ordained by Christ.

I would encourage her if she can find someone to do it go ahead. But also what ELSE does she believe? Is she indeed a Oneness? Does she believe in the Spirit baptism? Her other beliefs would be important to know for me in counseling with her.

If she has beliefs that are for the most part similar to ours I would work with her what I could to encourage her in Christ. On the other hand just peradventure she is a Torah keeper who rejects the gifts and miraculous things of the spirit I might wish her well and move on.

I guess Teuila is done with me. Her last response was on February 9. So here is the balance of our discussion if you are interested. By the way, I think these kinds of discussions are tremendous learning opportunitites. If we can't defend what we believe, then we ought to be wondering if we should really be believing it.

DH: Teuila, I just had a new thought. The book of Matthew could not have been written in Hebrew, because in Matthew 1:22-23 he wrote, "So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us." Why would Matthew have translated a Hebrew word (Immanuel) if he was writing in Hebrew. Everyone who spoke Hebrew would have already understood what it meant. But if He used a Hebrew word while writing in Greek, he would have needed to explain its meaning. This means that when he wrote, "You shall call His name Jesus," he actually wrote the name Iesou. He could have written Yeshua and then said, which is interpreted Iesou or Yahweh saves, but he didn't. What do you think?

Teuila: Hi Dave, you see through the scriptures in many places where names are being interpreted to tell us the meaning, Golgotha being interpreted the place of a skull.. Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas... Acts 9:36 Showing that in once language she was called one thing and something else in another, that's fine because we see that in scripture where she was called by diff names.

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. Revelation 9:11

Again we see in scripture that names were being translated from one language to another.. So like you said why don't we see that for Yeshua's name but in fact we don't see that in scripture yet it was changed anyways, they did it anyways.. Who decided that Iesous meant God or was Gods name? Greek scholars? So man.. Man decided that that's what they were going to use instead.. I don't do things mans way. I see Yeshua up and down the whole bible and the meaning when you break Yeshua up but you can't do that for any other name bc every other name is a false name. You cannot change Gods name, it would break scripture. You cannot lay any other foundation than that which was built on the name of Yeshua.

DH: You are missing my point. Immanuel was not a name; it was a phrase in the Hebrew language consisting of three words (im = with, anu = us, el = God). When Matthew was writing, he wrote the phrase using the same Hebrews words that were used by Isaiah, but because he was writing in Greek, he realized he needed to translate them for the reader. He did not feel the need to translate the name Iesou. How could anyone in Athens be expected to read the first chapter of Matthew and understand that He should call on God by the name Yeshua? It just doesn't make sense. Why didn't God inspire Matthew to write the Lord's name in Hebrew if it was so important? I'm sure the people living in Hebrew speaking communities called Him Yeshua, but how would any Greek-speaking person know to do that if all he had available was the Scriptures.

You may understand the name Yeshua today, but I'm sure you didn't figure it out on your own. Do you believe you were not saved when until you started calling God by the name Yeshua? Is that the basis for salvation? I know you were at one time baptized in the name of Jesus, but were you re-baptized in the name of Yeshua? Do you believe my family and I need to be re-baptized.

Teuila: See how you broke up Immanuel, it was a title given meaning God with us, my point being all along that you can see what Yeshua means when you break it apart like you did with Immanuel. God does not have more than one name. I quite frankly don't know nor do I want to entertain that idea of what people did back then bc I didn't live in that time so I'll never know. What I do know is that God is looking for people who are searching him with their whole heart and not kicking against him. Every study, everywhere I've researched, dictionary, encyclopedia and people I've talked to, no one denies that his name was Yeshua. The more I study, the more I see that Iesous was used in lei of Yeshua. I don't find or see anywhere where anyone questioned that his name was Iesous and not Yeshua...

No of course I didn't find it out on my own, but somewhere down the line someone introduces you and teaches you about the Bible and scripture, which is why the bible teaches us to obey those that have the rule over you and you have teachers. When I believed the name of Jesus, I didn't know that it could've been anything other than that, so I wouldn't have thought that I "wasn't saved" up until this point. But I've read and I've prayed and again, God only has one name. There's salvation in no other name (singular) by which we are saved. It's a universal name. You can say Hallelujah and everyone understands it no matter what language they speak, it's a universal word. Your mother gave you one name and that is the name everyone calls you. It doesn't translate into something else depending on the people you're around, what language you speak or what country you're in. I'm just being obedient to God.

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Matthew 10:14

DH: Teuila, you mentioned several names in the New Testament that were translated, similar to what I said about Immanuel. What you don’t realize is that these references prove exactly what I’m saying. Let me explain: Golgotha is a Hebrew name which Matthew interprets because he is writing in Greek. Likewise, Tabitha was a Hebrew name, which is why Luke (a Greek) interpreted its meaning for his Greek-speaking audience. Even in Revelation, which was written to seven churches in Greek-speaking Asia, the writer speaks of an angel "whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon." Again, he is translating a Hebrew name into Greek. Now why did none of the writers of the Bible ever feel the need to interpret or translate the name of the Son of God. Why doesn’t the Bible say, "And you shall call His name Yeshua, which being interpreted means Yahweh is salvation, or as we would say in the Greek tongue, Iesous." But we never see this. All we ever see in the New Testament is the name Iesous. The name Yeshua is never found. God could have put it in there, but He didn’t. I wonder why.

The very name of God the Father; as Yahweh (YHWH), Jehova (JHVH), Elohim, Adonai, Immanuel, and Lord; the names of God the Father are not contested or disputed but recognized as the one true living God, the "I Am". Do we contest each other and decipher all these names, meanings, origins, translations, and contexts? No, we recognize them as our God, just as His son Jesus, Yeshua, Yesha, or Iesous should equally be recognized within the intertextuality of the names; to say it is not the same argument is to say it is not the same God/entitiy (which it is, the same). That being said, we do not dispute the recognition of God's variability and translation as God the Father, through the intertextuality of His names, so His son (all one in the same) is equally recognizable as Jesus, Yeshua, Yesha, or Iesous. Thank God He doesn't choose to answer us if we call the only singular name He will answer to, or that unless we go down in an accurate and literal name, that His plan is not fulfilled; but rather He will know us by our fruits and the fact that He indwells within His people. Just as a new born baby cannot accurately call out to its mother, yet the mother knows its cry, so are the babes in Christ heard by Him. They are born in Him and made new in Him, and for that He knows them as His own. Consider God's Word, specifically how He admonishes and/or encourages us in the manner of which we can be heard by Him and receive His forgiveness and healing: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." - 2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV

It is important to note that WE ARE CALLED by HIS NAME; not that we are commanded and instructed to say a singular specific name; but we have already been bought by the blood of the right name bared by His Son, and the price has already been paid (contract is already signed with His blood; whether Jesus, Yeshua, or Iesous). It seems He is telling us here that the contract law is already written and engraved into eternity; to argue over which name He penned is arbitrary and trivial because he signed with blood, what is more important here is the manner in which we carry out the contractual obligations (our actions and the life we live in Him). So I propose there are some things beyond our comprehension that He has not deemed necessary for us to understand. However, what we do know to be true, is that His Word (the Logos), and this God (Yahweh (YHWH), Jehova (JHVH), Elohim, Adonai, Immanuel) through His blood as a flesh sacrifice (Jesus, Yeshua, Yesha, Iesous), in and of Itself, is Who calls us, through whichever name He chooses to call us is within His own reasoning, all we must do is "humble" ourselves and "seek His face" and "pray", and through that He will hear us from heaven, forgive our sins, and heal our lands.

My name is Michael. In Spanish, it is Migel. In Russian, it is Mikhael. And on and on. In whatever language, it is still my name. 

Jesus is Jesus in English, Je'sus' in Spanish, Iesous in Greek, and Yeshua in Hebrew. It is STILL THE SAME NAME irregardless of what language version you use. 

It doesn't matter to God which version of THE ONE NAME is used in baptism, as long as it is one version of his name. To say otherwise is, as Jesus put it, "straining at a gnat."

Very few people say you cannot be saved unless you use the Hebrew name. Or he will answer to no other. What I notice most among Apostolics is a resistance to the "original" Hebrew name. As if somehow its "foreign" and only the English will do.

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