I Have A Dream!

[Donnie Gillum]

I have a Dream…a dream that is based on Eph. 4:11-16…with emphasis on vs 13 which reads: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

I will get to the core: A global unified Body of Christ…lead by the Holy Ghost. Many initially respond, yeah, yeah, yeah to the idea, but as I reveal my vision, I begin to realize it is too far out for many - as if it can never happen – impossible! Nevertheless, it is still my dream. It is my aim in ministry. It is what keeps me going. It seems to be ever-present in the back of my mind – perhaps a compulsion (and probably the main reason I joined this particular Network).

Allow me to explain. We notice in Eph. 4, that the five gifts (or four, whatever), to me, seem to be given, for a specified length of time – that is: “Till”. Till, or until what? Notice the answer in broken down form:

1. Till…we all come in the unity of the faith,
2. And of the knowledge of the Son of God,
3. Till…(we all come) unto a perfect man,
4. Till…(we all come) unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

In other words, until it becomes that presentable, glorious church! BIG job! What concerns me is that in 2000 years, this “five-fold” ministry has not accomplished its purpose…which speaks many things (to me).

What I would like to ask my Network Brethren is:
How do you see the “presentable” church?
What would be different about this “glorious” church than the present day church as we now know it?

[Donnie Gillum]

Focusing on the five-fold ministry being given “Till” or until, it would appear this ministry is given until the church reaches this full potential in Christ – while still in this world.

That is, until the whole church is:

-Perfected, completely furnished or equipped
-In the unity of the faith, and knowledge of the Son of God
-No more a child, but grown up into a complete man, full of Christ
-With each member functioning in its place helping the Body grow in the love of Christ
-As a Body, continuing to increase in members, or grow (endtime revival?), fulfilling in the church what was done in Christ, namely:

(2Co 5:19) To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…

Now we have the finished product church, with Christ as the Head, operating as a complete Body, reconciling the world unto God.

While many seem to think that when this coming perfection of the church happens, the five-fold ministry has done its job, and what happens next is the “catching away”... and "That' all folks!" Then She will be entirely like Him forever (I Jn 3:2) In this respect, the five-fold ministry is no longer needed because the church is grown up and ready for the “catching away” or presentation of the church to Christ.

I am not suggesting this is not true. However, I would like to offer another possibility, that is in my “Dream”. That this present world is in a mess, is a given. It was in a mess in Jesus’ day as well. But the world at that time, had NEVER seen anything like Messiah! Sure, there had been Elijah and Elisha with their miracles. But we can number them. It seems that people think that Jesus did a lot of miracles, but that thought does not really convey the amount He did. The gospels repeatedly state that He healed multitudes, and gives the impression at times that the crowd was as far as the eye could see, innumerable (Lk 12:21). The fact is, Jesus did too many miracles to record (Jn 21:25)! In fact, He did so many that it would boggle the mind…so much that it causes me to wonder how anyone could not believe He had arrived. (No wonder He was so hard on the Pharisees…they had to refuse to believe...in spite of the overwhelming evidence!) Again, my point is that the world had NEVER seen anything like Jesus!

May I present that the world has NEVER seen anything like what Christ has in store for the His finished product church – grown up in Christ – operating with Him as the Head! If the law was to bring us to Christ, then the five-fold ministry is to bring us up in Christ! And if the five-fold ministry is give "until" this happens, He fully intends for this to happen! If Jesus is the pattern of what the church is to be like...the Spirit had free operation in Him - while in this world! What a possibility!

Could it be that when the five-fold ministry has done its job, it is no longer needed because the church is mature and now being lead by the Head instead - entirely led by the Spirit? The world has never seen ANYTHING like Christ operating in His global Body! Didn’t He mention something about greater works being done than He did…and, WOW!...didn’t He DO SOME MIGHTY WORKS!!!

Talk about a glorious church! That’s what he wants as a Bride. Not a baby. Nor a wobbling toddler (no more children…). I cannot help but feel He wants to demonstrate to this world His power in the church for a while before Her "catching away". That’s why I do not see a real “endtime revival” without the “growing up”, or maturity of the church first. The works will follow with Him as the Head.

Again this world has NEVER seen anything like the gloroius church, but may I say, it wants to! This next scripture leads up to the afterlife in Christ, but could it also be a hint of the glorious church to come?

(Rom 8:18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
(Rom 8:19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

At least in part, could the “glory which shall be revealed in us” be Christ in His church demonstrating His awesome power? Could this world be in wretched misery, longing to know who the sons of God are? Could the perfected, glorious church be the manifestation (revealing) of the sons of God - to this wicked world? Doesn’t scripture mention (Rev. 19:7) that His wife has made herself ready? For what? Her presentation to Him. But before then, she must be a glorious Church – while still in this world!

May we see it in our day!

Your turn!

[Donnie Gillum]

Welcome to the conversation, Brother!

Quote-Elder Luna: ...he will lead us into oneness of faith. It is time!

"It is time!" I love this positive proclamation! Oh!...may it happen in OUR day!

Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!

[Donnie Gillum]

I see that your chapter aligns well with the topic of this discussion – the perfecting of the saints/church. It appears also that this one (the perfected church) like unto the Son of Man seems to be referenced as such in Dan. 7 as well.

Here are a few verses, and there are more, that may add some weight to the subject:

(Act 4:11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

(Eph 2:20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

(1Pe 2:7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

(Isa 28:16) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

I have asked orthodox Rabbis (one in Jerusalem) concerning Isa. 28:16. They pretty much made nothing special out of the cornerstone.

As a builder, I’d like to offer this, though you’ve probably already thought of it. Today’s cornerstone are nothing more than a ceremonial “stone” mortared into the wall with some information engraved in it. There is absolutely nothing structurally important about it – simply ornamental. The building will stand, and endure just fine without it. One remarkable thing about it is, it is usually placed after, or near the completion of the building - last.

But when one is going to build a building, there has to be one reference point that is determined to be absolutely correct. In other words, we know that this particular corner of the building is going to be at this certain spot. Everything else will be measured from that point. Since this is where the most important “stone” would be laid, it is obviously the “chief” cornerstone. Sure, there may be other cornerstones, but this one is laid first…and the others are measured, and placed in their proper position, in relation to the first and chief cornerstone.

So, the main function of the Chief Cornerstone is to be a reference point by which all the rest of the building is measured…and judged. Should a mistake be discovered during the building process, one can go back to check previous work in relation to the One point that is known to be absolutely correct – the First Cornerstone - and discover the problem...because regardless what happens in the rest of the building process, this stone is always correct.

Even the apostles and prophets, being foundational stones as well, are useless without the Chief Cornerstone as their reference point (the One they point to). Reject, or refuse to place the proper reference, at the correct starting location, and you risk error that is harder to repair, the further the building process goes. Nuff said!

[Nathan Miller]

Good insight into the practical meaning of "Cornerstone", Donnie. How true it is that we must return to Jesus and to the foundation He has laid. Going back to 1901, or 325 or to the post-apostolic period isn't enough. The Lord is building His house on His foundation!