Be Ye Perfect

[Mike Gibson]

 

Jesus said in Matthew 5:48:

 

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.

 

I believe this is to be the "standard" for every Christian. What do you think?

[Michael V. Frazier]

Seems to be simple enough to understand, but altogether different to put into practice.  :)

[Mike Gibson]

 

I think the fact that it is never taught, at least not in a positive light the saints have come to think its not possible. And yet as far as I can tell the entire purpose of the ministry is geared for this.

[Mike Gibson]

 

It seems to me that Churches and Teachers have set the standard of being a Christian to low. The Christian is to be like Jesus. I have heard many people say over the years they think we will be surprised when we see how many made it into the Kingdom that we did not think would.

 

Yet Jesus himself is the one who said:

 

7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matt. 7:13-14

 

So I think its the other way around. They will be shocked to find that many they thought would be there will not.

 

I say much of the blame for it will be due to the lack of teaching the true standard of the Christian Faith. Would Jesus rebuke his people if their works are not perfect?

 

3:1  And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
3:2  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.  Rev. 3:1-2

 

Indeed Jesus rebuked the Church in Sardis for exactly that reason!

 

So far two shocking facts for todays Christians.

 

1. They must be perfect even as the Father is perfect. Matt. 5:48

2. Their works must be perfect. Rev. 3:2

 

 

 

 

[Michael V. Frazier]

Some very good thoughts, and I do agree.  "Be ye perfect" is a theme that I have found myself returning to often within our local assembly.

[Mike Gibson]

 

Glad to hear you are teaching it Michael. Paul said expressly that was his purpose for ministry.

 

1:28  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:  Col. 1:28

 

If we are automatically perfect why would Paul need to labor for that to happen?

 

[Mike Gibson]

 

Many ask but what does it mean to be perfect? They say the Greek really means "mature" or "complete". Ok fine but I ask mature or complete in what regard? What would it MEAN to be mature even as the Father is mature? What would it MEAN to be complete as he is complete?

 

Well I would say in context with the things that the Lord speaks of in this and the following chapters the obvious answer is to be perfect, or mature, or complete even as the Father is refers to his Character.

 

He is holy and pure!

 

Peter said the same thing in another way:

 

  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
  Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1 Peter 1:15-16

 

Same thing Jesus was saying.

 

Apostle John said the same thing in another way.

 

 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 1 John 3:2-3

 

Same thing Jesus was saying!

 

So we are called for this purpose. That we may be holy and pure even as he is holy and pure.

 

There is no other standard God will accept from his people.

[Mike Gibson]

 

One may ask what are the consequences if our works are not perfect? Jesus is glad you asked that question. Here is what he told a New Testament Church of the first century.

 

3:1  And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
3:2  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3:3  Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
3:4  Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5

 

Jesus promises to the overcomers, those who have not defiled their garments, whose works are perfect in his sight that he will not blot them out of the book of life!

 

He does not make that promise to those whose works are not perfect. I take this to mean he offers no assurance to those whose works are not perfect that they will be finally saved.

 

Matter of fact he does not even promise them salvation but with no rewards as many teach. So when he commanded us to be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect that was not optional. It was meant to be the standard and the life of every Christian from Pentecost until he comes to Earth again.  peace, mike

 

[Mike R. Prevost]

I agree: Jesus is the only Holiness Standard.  But read this familiar passage:

 

Rom 7:14-25 KJV  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.  {15}  For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.  {16}  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.  {17}  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.  {18}  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.  {19}  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.  {20}  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.  {21}  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.  {22}  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:  {23}  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.  {24}  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

What in the world is Paul talking about here?!  If this is a description of the Christian life, what is this "be ye perfect" business?

 

[ Note that I did not make any statements.  I just asked questions!  ;) ]

 

[Mike Gibson]

 

Hi Michael,

 

Paul is discussing his life trying to serve God under the law before he had the Spirit of Christ on the inside. Note that in verse 5 of that chapter he states this:

 

  For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Verse 5

The Paul he was talking about in the chapter is not the same Paul we know as an apostle. He describes himself as being "in the flesh" and then in verse 18 as having no way to "perfom what is good."

 

7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

In Romans 7 he describes himself as a religous man but a man of the flesh. If you continue reading over into Chapter 8 we find that he actually discovered how to perform that which was good!

 

8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom. 8:8-12

 

So in context Paul is giving quite a lengthy overall teaching on the mechanics of salvation in the book of Romans writing about faith, baptism, the Holy Spirit indwelling and new life in Christ. Romans 7 he digresses in order to make a sharp contrast between true New Testament salvation and life under the law without the Spirit.

 

The old Paul said he did evil instead of good. Rom. 7:19

 

Yet after having become a new creation in Jesus he told the Thessalonians:

 

2:10  Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe: 1 Thess. 2:10

 

Paul had the confession that he and his ministry team were living holy and blameless lives! Thats why he could teach the doctrine of perfection with boldness because he knew what that life was because of experience.

 

[Mike R. Prevost]

 

Mike Gibson said:

Paul is discussing his life trying to serve God under the law before he had the Spirit of Christ on the inside. 

 

RIGHT ON!  Finally someone who understands Rom 7 !!!

 

So often people teach this passage as a Christian struggling between the flesh and the Spirit.  Rom 6-8 teach this mechanism by which we are free from BOTH the power/predisposition to sin AND the condemnation resulting from sin.  To interpret the last half of Rom 7 as the Christian's struggle with the flesh is to have Paul basically saying "I know I said that you were from sin, but, guys, it just doesn't really work that way for me -- I just can't stop sinning no matter how hard I try."

 

Exciting stuff!

 

Mike Gibson said:

Matter of fact he does not even promise them salvation but with no rewards as many teach. So when he commanded us to be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect that was not optional. It was meant to be the standard and the life of every Christian from Pentecost until he comes to Earth again.
[...]
So we are called for this purpose. That we may be holy and pure even as he is holy and pure. There is no other standard God will accept from his people.
[...]

So I think its the other way around. They will be shocked to find that many they thought would be there will not.

[...]
So far two shocking facts for todays Christians. 

  1. They must be perfect even as the Father is perfect. Matt. 5:48

  2. Their works must be perfect. Rev. 3:2 

 

Are you saying that if a Christian's works are not perfect, then he can't go to heaven?

 

[Mike Gibson]

Michael said:

 

Are you saying that if a Christian's works are not perfect, then he can't go to heaven?

 

Actually Jesus is the one who said it Michael.

 

3:1  And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
3:2  Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3:3  Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
3:4  Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Rev. 3:1-5

Note that in verse 2 he rebukes them because their works were not perfect. Then follow context through verse 5. It seems apparent that the Lord is saying those who are not overcomers....works not perfect will be blotted out of the book of life.

What do you think those verses mean?

 

 

[Mike R. Prevost]

Well, a very fast word study shows that πληρόω occurs 94 times in the NT and is translated "perfect"  in the KJV exactly once: in Rev 3:2.  

 

KJV Translations:

• 45 times, it was translated ""fulfilled",
• 17 times "filled",
• 9 times "full",
• 6 times "fulfil",
• 3 times "fill",
• 2 times "complete",
• 2 times "ended", and
• 9 times various single words most of which are related to "fill". 

 

Thayer Definition:

1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full

  1a) to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally

    1a1) I abound, I am liberally supplied

2) to render full, i.e. to complete

  2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim

  2b) to consummate: a number

    2b1) to make complete in every particular, to render perfect

    2b2) to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)

  2c) to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise

    2c1) of matters of duty: to perform, execute

    2c2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

    2c3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

 

Strong Definition:

From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

 

 

Other Translations:

English Standard Version:

Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.

 

God's Word:

Be alert, and strengthen the things that are left which are about to die. I have found that what you are doing has not been completed in the sight of my God.

 

Revised Version:

Be thou watchful, and stablish the things that remain, which were ready to die: for I have found no works of thine fulfilled before my God.

 

Young's Literal Translation:

become watching, and strengthen the rest of the things that are about to die, for I have not found thy works fulfilled before God.

 

The Literal Translation of the Holy Bible:

Be watching, and establish the things left, which are about to die. For I have not found your works being fulfilled before God.

 

Apostolic Bible Polyglot:

Become being vigilant, and support the rest which you are about to throw off! for I have not  found your  works being fulfilled before  my God. 

 

Douay-Rheims:

Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die. For I find not thy works full before my God.