Does Immortal Soul Doctrine Deny The Gospel? - The Glorious Church2024-03-29T14:18:43Zhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/forum/topics/does-immortal-soul-doctrine-deny-the-gospel?feed=yes&xn_auth=noRight, that was the point I w…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-12:2853269:Comment:263272013-02-12T12:19:44.227ZDavid Hustonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/DavidandBarbaraHuston
<p>Right, that was the point I was trying to make.</p>
<p>Right, that was the point I was trying to make.</p> So to me it seems immortal s…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-12:2853269:Comment:266352013-02-12T01:15:59.031ZMike Gibsonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/MikeGibson
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<p>So to me it seems immortal soul is a different "good news" than the resurrection of the dead.</p>
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<p>So to me it seems immortal soul is a different "good news" than the resurrection of the dead.</p> Where Im coming from is if i…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:263262013-02-11T23:40:55.859ZMike Gibsonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/MikeGibson
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<p>Where Im coming from is if indeed the righteous were already going to eternal happiness in Paradise how was the resurrection of Jesus body better news than what they were already believing? I mean the belief already was (among the teachers of the day) that righteous people went to Heaven.</p>
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<p>Even today people really say they look forward to the day of their death because they are going straight to Heaven. They dont seem to have any expectation of joy or happiness at the…</p>
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<p>Where Im coming from is if indeed the righteous were already going to eternal happiness in Paradise how was the resurrection of Jesus body better news than what they were already believing? I mean the belief already was (among the teachers of the day) that righteous people went to Heaven.</p>
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<p>Even today people really say they look forward to the day of their death because they are going straight to Heaven. They dont seem to have any expectation of joy or happiness at the teaching of the resurrection when Jesus comes. So to them the good news is their immortal soul goes straight to Heaven apart from the resurrection at the last day.</p> I don't think you're getting…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:263252013-02-11T23:20:43.803ZDavid Hustonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/DavidandBarbaraHuston
<p>I don't think you're getting my point, Bro. Mike. I'm not suggesting that the immortal soul people are right any more than I would suggest a Trinitarian is right. I believe a person is saved by the "sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:14). All I'm suggesting is that they do have a logical basis for calling the gospel "good news," since they believe that each immortal soul will go to hell unless it is saved through the gospel. At least some believe that.…</p>
<p>I don't think you're getting my point, Bro. Mike. I'm not suggesting that the immortal soul people are right any more than I would suggest a Trinitarian is right. I believe a person is saved by the "sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:14). All I'm suggesting is that they do have a logical basis for calling the gospel "good news," since they believe that each immortal soul will go to hell unless it is saved through the gospel. At least some believe that. I'm not talking about those who think that everyone, in the end, goes to heaven.</p> To me its the same thing as T…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:262152013-02-11T22:53:04.509ZMike Gibsonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/MikeGibson
<p>To me its the same thing as Trinitarianism. They say very strongly they not not believe in 3 Gods. They just believe there are 3 co equal persons who are the one God. Likewise immortal soul teachers say they are not denying the gospel because THEY SAY the gospel is a two fold thing. First you die and go Heaven. Your spirit and soul are in bliss and happiness. Then later they get to be reunited with the body they used to have.</p>
<p>Now in both instances Trinitarianism and Immortal Soul…</p>
<p>To me its the same thing as Trinitarianism. They say very strongly they not not believe in 3 Gods. They just believe there are 3 co equal persons who are the one God. Likewise immortal soul teachers say they are not denying the gospel because THEY SAY the gospel is a two fold thing. First you die and go Heaven. Your spirit and soul are in bliss and happiness. Then later they get to be reunited with the body they used to have.</p>
<p>Now in both instances Trinitarianism and Immortal Soul doctrine they claim they are teaching the truth. They both have some truth in their teaching. Should we assume God will give them a break on the errors? They were sincere but wrong? I mean if he does thats fine with me. I seek no ones harm.</p>
<p>Yet if he judges the beliefs we hold and teach others is it possible for people to be lost because of it? If so then we should love the truth and treat it as it were the truth shouldnt we?</p> I agree with you that the goo…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:265172013-02-11T22:30:19.633ZDavid Hustonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/DavidandBarbaraHuston
<p>I agree with you that the good news has primarily to do with the resurrection. But for those who believe in the "immortal soul," they would say that each soul will spend eternity in either heaven or hell. So the good news is that a soul can escape an eternity hell through the gospel and instead spend eternity in heaven. I can see why people who believe this would consider the gospel really good news. What I'm asking is, how do we respond to that argument? I realize we can refute it from the…</p>
<p>I agree with you that the good news has primarily to do with the resurrection. But for those who believe in the "immortal soul," they would say that each soul will spend eternity in either heaven or hell. So the good news is that a soul can escape an eternity hell through the gospel and instead spend eternity in heaven. I can see why people who believe this would consider the gospel really good news. What I'm asking is, how do we respond to that argument? I realize we can refute it from the Scriptures, but I don't see how we can claim that their position negates the idea of good news. We may have better news, but if they are correct (which I don't believe), then they would have good news too. Do you see what I'm saying, Bro. Mike? </p>
But what would have made th…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:265142013-02-11T22:00:44.851ZMike Gibsonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/MikeGibson
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<p>But what would have made that "good news" or the "gospel"? If they <strong>already</strong> were believing they went to Paradise when they died they were probably happy with that. What would have made the "good news" of Jesus resurrection better news than what they already believed <strong>IF INDEED</strong> thats really what they <strong>DID</strong> believe?</p>
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<p>It seems Paul who said the gospel found its climax in the fact that Jesus (not just his body) rose again on…</p>
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<p>But what would have made that "good news" or the "gospel"? If they <strong>already</strong> were believing they went to Paradise when they died they were probably happy with that. What would have made the "good news" of Jesus resurrection better news than what they already believed <strong>IF INDEED</strong> thats really what they <strong>DID</strong> believe?</p>
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<p>It seems Paul who said the gospel found its climax in the fact that Jesus (not just his body) rose again on the third day. This he calls the gospel. The good news that Jesus overcame death and that through him we could have a like experience.</p>
<p>Then the whole chapter of 1 Cor. 15 he is building more and more info toward the ultimate hope of the Christian. To be made immortal at Christs coming.</p>
<p><span style="display: inline;" id="1co15-51" class="versetext"><span class="versenum">51</span><span class="strongs">Behold</span> , I <span class="strongs">shew</span> <span class="strongs">you</span> a <span class="strongs">mystery;</span> We <span class="strongs">shall</span> <span class="strongs">not</span> <span class="strongs">all</span> <span class="strongs">sleep</span> , <span class="strongs">but</span> we <span class="strongs">shall</span> <span class="strongs">all</span> be <span class="strongs">changed</span> ,</span> <span style="display: inline;" id="1co15-52" class="versetext"><span class="versenum">52</span><span class="strongs">In</span> a <span class="strongs">moment,</span> <span class="strongs">in</span> the <span class="strongs">twinkling</span> of an <span class="strongs">eye,</span> <span class="strongs">at</span> the <span class="strongs">last</span> <span class="strongs">trump:</span> <span class="strongs">for</span> the trumpet shall <span class="strongs">sound</span> , <span class="strongs">and</span> the <span class="strongs">dead</span> shall be <span class="strongs">raised</span> <span class="strongs">incorruptible,</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">we</span> shall be <span class="strongs">changed</span> .</span> <span style="display: inline;" id="1co15-53" class="versetext"><span class="versenum">53</span><span class="strongs">For</span> <span class="strongs">this</span> <span class="strongs">corruptible</span> <span class="strongs">must</span> put <span class="strongs">on</span> <span class="strongs">incorruption,</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">this</span> <span class="strongs">mortal</span> must put <span class="strongs">on</span> <span class="strongs">immortality.</span></span><span style="display: inline;" id="1co15-54" class="versetext"><span class="versenum">54</span><span class="strongs">So</span> <span class="strongs">when</span> <span class="strongs">this</span> <span class="strongs">corruptible</span> shall have put <span class="strongs">on</span> <span class="strongs">incorruption,</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">this</span> <span class="strongs">mortal</span> shall have put <span class="strongs">on</span> <span class="strongs">immortality,</span> <span class="strongs">then</span> shall be brought to <span class="strongs">pass</span> the <span class="strongs">saying</span> that is <span class="strongs">written</span> , <span class="strongs">Death</span> is swallowed <span class="strongs">up</span> <span class="strongs">in</span> <span class="strongs">victory.</span></span><span style="display: inline;" id="1co15-55" class="versetext"><span class="versenum">55</span> O <span class="strongs">death,</span> <span class="strongs">where</span> is <span class="strongs">thy</span> <span class="strongs">sting?</span> O <span class="strongs">grave,</span><a name="c" id="c"></a><sup style="display: none;" class="footnote"><a id="c" title="grave: or, hell" href="#fn-descriptionAnchor-c" name="c"></a></sup> <span class="strongs">where</span> is <span class="strongs">thy</span> <span class="strongs">victory? 1 Cor. 15:51-55</span></span></p>
<p><span style="display: inline;" class="versetext"><span class="strongs">Now to Paul <strong>THAT</strong> was the good news! Note that not once in that very long chapter does he mention anyone having eternal life or immortality until the second coming. If such were true <strong>THAT</strong> would have been the "good news".</span></span></p>
<p><span style="display: inline;" class="versetext"><span class="strongs">I think that chapter 15 of 1st Corinthians defines the good news/gospel. Its relevance to us then is fully expanded by pointing to the truth of the resurrection!</span></span></p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>David Huston said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://gloriouschurch.ning.com/forum/topics/does-immortal-soul-doctrine-deny-the-gospel#2853269Comment26511"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Couldn't the gospel have been considered good news in the sense that for those who obeyed it, their "immortal soul" would go immediately to be with Jesus instead of going immediately into a place of torment? Wouldn't that have been good news, irrespective of some furture resurrection?</p>
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</blockquote> Couldn't the gospel have been…tag:gloriouschurch.ning.com,2013-02-11:2853269:Comment:265112013-02-11T13:17:05.422ZDavid Hustonhttp://gloriouschurch.ning.com/profile/DavidandBarbaraHuston
<p>Couldn't the gospel have been considered good news in the sense that for those who obeyed it, their "immortal soul" would go immediately to be with Jesus instead of going immediately into a place of torment? Wouldn't that have been good news, irrespective of some furture resurrection?</p>
<p>Couldn't the gospel have been considered good news in the sense that for those who obeyed it, their "immortal soul" would go immediately to be with Jesus instead of going immediately into a place of torment? Wouldn't that have been good news, irrespective of some furture resurrection?</p>